Intelligently Designed Universe?

[Khandro]

Intelligent design, as one sees it from a scientific point of view, seems to be quite real. This is a very special universe: it’s remarkable that it came out just this way. If the laws of physics weren’t just the way they are, we couldn’t be here at all. The sun couldn’t be there, the laws of gravity and nuclear laws and magnetic theory, quantum mechanics, and so on have to be just the way they are for us to be here.

Or what?

[naomi24]

Why are you considering Thomas Aquinas, khandro? Nothing in what he said addresses Radagast's post.  Why you think the cop out nonsense you quote will somehow convince anyone who asks logical questions is another life's mysteries.

[THECORBYLOON]

"If the laws of physics weren’t just the way they are, we couldn’t be here at all."

 

If different laws of physics existed on earth, could a different lifeform not also say the same thing?

[nailedit]

//1. Anything that begins to exist has a cause.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has a First Cause.//

IF that information is true, then that first cause is a moral monster.

It created a universe whereby life eats life.

Lions eat prey alive, fish eat other fish, Predators tear their pray alive squealing.

And cancer, dementia, motor neurone disease, diabetes, heart disease, strokes, infections, alzheimer’s, tuberculosis etc.

And parasites, earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis.

Hardly fine tuned for life...

[nailedit]

Its like if you had a thinking puddle in a pond.

It would say to itself

"Look how perfectly that I fit into this hole,

I must have been created for it, I fit so well in this hole.

This couldnt have possibly been an accident. I fit to perfectly into it"

 

[Khandro]

naomi: You seem neither understand what Radagast is asking, nor what St Thomas Aquinas was asserting.

Suggest you read them both again, - that is if you read the précis at the start of my above link at all.

[Old_Geezer]

Are you sure the universe (or universes as a whole) had a beginning ?

[nailedit]

NO pond,

You are just some random water droplets sitting in a hole.

Just like we are some consciousness sittint in a universe.

[naomi24]

Khandro, I understood both.  Which bit do you think I don't understand?

[Khandro]

OG; //Are you sure the universe (or universes as a whole) had a beginning ?//

 

That is a non-trivial question, when so many phenomena appear to be cyclic.

[Zacs-Master]

I knew this would end up some theological ***. 

[Radagast]

It's handy that God doesn't have to obey all the natural conditions I see around me.

https://tinyurl.com/2p8c5swe

[1ozzy]

//It's handy that God doesn't have to obey all the natural conditions I see around me.//

Yep,,

[mibn2cweus]

The presumption of intelligence is the hallmark of stupidity.

The universe existed long before anyone or anything could possibly have known anything about it, let alone how to create one.

To presume the universe was created one must ignore that creativity is a product of the universe which is essential to and from which the process of creativity is made possible.

[Khandro]

Welcome Professor Stanley Unwin.

[mibn2cweus]

'Intelligently', 'designed'? Two wrongs don't make it right.

[Khandro]

There is something obscure which is complete

before heaven and earth arose;

tranquil, quiet,

standing alone without change,

Moving around without peril.

It could be the mother of everything.

I don't know its name,

and call it Tao.

 

 

Lao-tzu. 6th century BC

[Radagast]

Khandro, you've only made a case for a deist god. It's a very big leap to a theist god.

[naomi24]

Khandro hasn't 'made a case' at all, in my opinion. Posting a few bits of what someone else says doesn't equate to evidence of anything.

[Khandro]

//Khandro hasn't 'made a case' at all/

True, I don't make "cases", I have nothing to prove nor disprove.

 

[beso]

//1. Anything that begins to exist has a cause.//

Quantum Mechanics has shown us that is not true, Reality is probablistic and random not causal and deterministic.