Is 0 a number?

[mrbatfink]

I say no... almost everyone else i know says yes.

To me 0 is just a representation of the absence of a number...

You can not HAVE 0 of anything!!!

Well what do ppl think???

[Loosehead]

0 is a number. By your reasoning -1 is not a number either as you can't have -1 of something!

If you cannot see that then I fear you have so little arthmetical knowldge that any attempt at explanation would be futile.

[CT]

How, then would you quantify having nothing? If you had �1, then you gave it to someone. How much would you have? You had the coin, then gave it away, and now have one less coin than one. ie 0.

[mrbatfink]

I think the name loosehead suits you well..

-1 means to take 1 away, 1 is the number the sign just tells you what to do with it.

Negative numbers are purely for mathematics

2+1 = 3

3-1 = 2

got it? 2+0 = 2 2-0 = 2 therefore 2=2

the 0 represents the absence of a number nothing changes when you use 0 it represent no number!!!

I can explain it with apples if you like?

[mrbatfink]

CT if you have no coins you have no quantity of coins

no number of coins, the absence of coins....0 = no number!!!

[spinchimp]

'negative numbers are purely for mathematics'. Well they are numbers then aren't they, as is 0. I am afraid that I don't understand number theory really but you seem to be talking about numbers as only representing objects in the real world, which seems to me to be a very limited concept.

[Fatboy]

spinchimp

-1 means to take 1 away, 1 is the number the sign just tells you what to do with it.

i agree with the earlier statement 1 is just a number the sign just tells you what to do with it.

how can 0 be number what happens if you divide by 0?

MATH ERROR

you can divide by numbers, you cant divide by 0.

think before you type!

[fo3nix]

0 _is_ a number.

it just means to have nothing of that thing.

further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_%28number%29

[Loosehead]

You see arithmetic, (we are not yet doing maths) does not only cover concepts that can be represented in physical objects. You have an overdraft of �100, how much money do you have? -100 right? is that a number? take your time.

"-1 means to take away" ok then please take -1 away from -5 for me.

In order for arthmetic to work and all the maths that builds on it , 0 has to be a number we have to have an answer to sums of the form 3 - 3. Much algebra and equation solving methods make use of it.

There are a lot of arithmetical concepts that cannot be represented by apples. Clearly you are set on being wrong so enjoy your ignorance.

I await your next insult as clearly your mind is exhausted of any coherant debate.

[CT]

Maybe you could have a look at a book like this. I've not read one myself but they seem to involve the history of 0, and how it relates to modern mathematics. Let's just say that without it, the modern world would be a completely different place.

[CT]

Sorry, here's the link http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0285635948/ref= pd_sim_b_dp_2/026-6203534-8101233

[spinchimp]

Fatboy - listen sweetie, I did think before I typed - clearly you just don't think.

I pointed out that I don't understand number theory. I imagine you haven't even heard of it. I have a limited understanding of these things, but I have read a handful of books on the subject (for example I am currently reading 'The Music of Primes'). I have grasped enough from those books to be able to challenge the idea that the sole purpose of numbers are to act as symbolic representations of physical objects in the real world. Having said that I don't understand enough to convince someone who has a closed mind. Loosehead clearly knows what he is talking about and I think I will now leave it up to him (although I fear his sterling efforts will be in vain).

[CT]

I'd also like to say the it's more real than 'i' ('j' if you're an engineer), an imaginary number. 'i' the the square root of -1. Used in AC teory of electricity, and elsewhere.

[mrbatfink]

I alreday know 0 is classed as a number and concide to that point. My point is i dont believe it should be.

0 was actually created so they could use -numbers, before that numbers started at 1.

loose you dont actually have -�100 the negative just represents debt. You owe to the bank �100.

As for your use of double negatives i dont see what your getting at (-4).

And yes 0 does have to be there for arithmatic to work and thats the only reason it is there, it is a referance point and nothing more. And because it is needed for arithmatic they class it as a number, but my point is it has no numerical value and should therfore not be classed as a number....

[mrbatfink]

lol... i am an electronics engineer

[Clanad]

Everyone take a deep breath and count to 10...

Lest we lose sight of the fact that all numbers are merely written representations of abstract concepts, we should pause to understand that the idea of nothing in numerical calulations was foreign to the western mind until the introduction of the Hindu-Arabic numerical system sometime during the Middle Ages in Europe.
According to Wikipedia:
In geometry, the dimension of a point is 0.
In trigonometry, sin 0 = 0, tan 0 = 0, arcsin 0 = 0, and arctan 0 = 0.
In analytic geometry, 0 is the origin.
In nonstandard analysis the number zero is taken as an infinitesimal element of a non-principal ultrafilter.
The source goes on to state, unequivocally, that Zero is a number which means nothing, null, void or an absence of value.
Lastly, the medium by which we, here, communicate uses the concept of zero uniquely and states further that human beings usually number things starting from one, not zero. Yet in computer science zero has become the popular indication for a starting point. For example, in almost all old programming languages, an array starts from 1 by default, which is natural for humans. As programming languages have developed, it has become more common that an array starts from zero by default.

Instructive, no?

[Loosehead]

"As for your use of double negatives, I don't see what your(sic) getting at(-4)"

QED!

"You owe the bank �100" and how precisely does the bank store that? would they use a negative number purchance?

I think you are confusing arithmetical concepts with every day usage but even if someone has 0 of something it still is a number. Try this there are three people A, B and C. Now A has 4 apples, B has 5 apples and C has no apples. Between the three of them what is the average amount of apples? I think you'll agree that it's 3 now to arrive at that we had to add the numbers of apples each has and divide by 3, so (0+4+5)/3 = 3 we needed the 0 to calculate the average

[theo_wyvern]

0 degrees ?

0 feet below sea level ?

all a bit subjective really and we are not gonna agree so just leave it, with nothing ;-)

[mrbatfink]

Actually in that instance you did not need the 0 it had no effect on your calculation, but enough of that.

I believe i said 0 is needed for mathematics... as you just tried to prove that, i assume we agree on there.

[spaced]

why doesnt everyone just chill and read this http://www.wonderquest.com/zero.htm

[Fatboy]

theres a word for 0 feet below sea level...
its called level.

and 0 degrees is a reference for either the start or end of something, like the freezeing point of water, or the melting point of ice.