ChatterBank0 min ago
Large Hadron Collider
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I'm interested to hear peoples opinions on the soon to be switched on Large Hadron Collider.
The LHC is a particle accelerator located on the France/Switzerland border; it has been dubbed the largest, most expensive, most powerful experiment ever attempted.
Concerns have been raised regarding the safety of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) on the grounds that high-energy particle collisions performed in the LHC might produce dangerous phenomena, including micro black holes, strangelets, vacuum bubbles and magnetic monopoles.
My concern is with the Black Holes but only because I do not understand about the other risks. According to scientists, we have been bombarded by Cosmic Rays (What the LHC will be mimicking) since time began and we have survived that. They also agree that Black Holes WILL be produced at the LHC but will disappear within a nanosecond because of Hawking Radiation. However Hawking Radiation is just a theory and HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN! There is also concern that these Black Holes could be held in the earths gravitational pull, therefore not being allowed to escape into outer space. This will cause the BH to eat the earth. Ok it sounds like science fiction but this is a major reality and more people need to know about it.
The LHC was due to be turned on in Nov 07 but because of delays it is now scheduled to operate in August 08.
Your opinions etc will be gratefully received.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Coll ider
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/
The LHC is a particle accelerator located on the France/Switzerland border; it has been dubbed the largest, most expensive, most powerful experiment ever attempted.
Concerns have been raised regarding the safety of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) on the grounds that high-energy particle collisions performed in the LHC might produce dangerous phenomena, including micro black holes, strangelets, vacuum bubbles and magnetic monopoles.
My concern is with the Black Holes but only because I do not understand about the other risks. According to scientists, we have been bombarded by Cosmic Rays (What the LHC will be mimicking) since time began and we have survived that. They also agree that Black Holes WILL be produced at the LHC but will disappear within a nanosecond because of Hawking Radiation. However Hawking Radiation is just a theory and HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN! There is also concern that these Black Holes could be held in the earths gravitational pull, therefore not being allowed to escape into outer space. This will cause the BH to eat the earth. Ok it sounds like science fiction but this is a major reality and more people need to know about it.
The LHC was due to be turned on in Nov 07 but because of delays it is now scheduled to operate in August 08.
Your opinions etc will be gratefully received.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Coll ider
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/
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HAHAHA! @what paranoidus said! on a more serious note 1960darrenh,your right it does sound a bit worryiny especially as its one of those things which is going to be a first so we are definetly in the dark about the possible danger,what like you said if we unleash a black hole or something else which we could'nt control? that would be that! i suppose that a horrible calamity cannot be percieved,but in life nothing bad is really expected or percieved till it comes straight out of the blue ''WHAM,BANG'' which i possible when they do their first experiment........on the other hand maybe some good will come out of it,where would we be if we did'nt do crazy experiments,risks and gambles? probably without electric,technology etc...... so instead of being worried maybe we need to embrace these pioneers who might end up giving us the secrets of free energy,time travel and the possibility of alien life......... cheers for the informaqtion and the links! i myself will be watching this space closely in aug from my garage where im still trying to build my ''flux capacator'' from dodgy plans i got from the internet! hahahah!
There has been a very similar question raised a few weeks ago.
Please search for it.
I'll keep it short:
Those that raise these issues in the news etc. don't have a clue what they're talking about. (I'm currently in the middle of a PhD in Theoretical Physics so would like to think that I do.) There is no real danger, it's just business as usual.
All will be fine. Black holes will not be produced to swallow the Earth, and cosmic rays will not fry our minds.
Please search for it.
I'll keep it short:
Those that raise these issues in the news etc. don't have a clue what they're talking about. (I'm currently in the middle of a PhD in Theoretical Physics so would like to think that I do.) There is no real danger, it's just business as usual.
All will be fine. Black holes will not be produced to swallow the Earth, and cosmic rays will not fry our minds.
Those that raise these issues in the news etc. don't have a clue what they're talking about. (I'm currently in the middle of a PhD in Theoretical Physics so would like to think that I do.) There is no real danger, it's just business as usual.
those that raise these issues in the news etc don't have a clue what they're talking about. (i'm currently building a garden wall and have a spirit level so would like to think that i am on the level ) there is no real danger just don't stand near my wall until the concrete sets or the wall has fallen over whichever comes first.
those that raise these issues in the news etc don't have a clue what they're talking about. (i'm currently building a garden wall and have a spirit level so would like to think that i am on the level ) there is no real danger just don't stand near my wall until the concrete sets or the wall has fallen over whichever comes first.
Does anyone know these too.
1) When the Collider is first switched on, will the beams be powerful enough to create weird stuff or will it happen when it gets up to full power?
2) How long will it take to get to full power?
3) Will the machine operate constantly or in different stages?
4) How long is the life of this machine?
5) If they find the "Higgs Boson", what will be the point of having the machine after that?
1) When the Collider is first switched on, will the beams be powerful enough to create weird stuff or will it happen when it gets up to full power?
2) How long will it take to get to full power?
3) Will the machine operate constantly or in different stages?
4) How long is the life of this machine?
5) If they find the "Higgs Boson", what will be the point of having the machine after that?
The tunnel that it operates in isn't new. It's been used for previous experiments (now stopped for LHC).
This is roughly what happens: there are smaller tunnels that are used to get the particle beans up to a good speed. The beams are then fed into the main tunnel. Using very strong magnets, you focus the beam into another one set up in a similar fashion (but travelling the other way).
You then carefully time the collision of the beams to occur inside a big detector -- so that you can see what happens. The detector (one's called ATLAS, for example) has several layers which are all good at detecting certain things. Some of the particles produced in the collision will be stopped at the first layer and detected there. Others go further and get detected in other layers.
You can re-use the tunnel for other experiments by making different detectors around the tunnel's perimeter.
The Higgs boson may or may not be detected. Current theories predict its mass to be within the energy range that the LHC should be able to reach. But they may be wrong -- we're doing the experiment to find out.
This is roughly what happens: there are smaller tunnels that are used to get the particle beans up to a good speed. The beams are then fed into the main tunnel. Using very strong magnets, you focus the beam into another one set up in a similar fashion (but travelling the other way).
You then carefully time the collision of the beams to occur inside a big detector -- so that you can see what happens. The detector (one's called ATLAS, for example) has several layers which are all good at detecting certain things. Some of the particles produced in the collision will be stopped at the first layer and detected there. Others go further and get detected in other layers.
You can re-use the tunnel for other experiments by making different detectors around the tunnel's perimeter.
The Higgs boson may or may not be detected. Current theories predict its mass to be within the energy range that the LHC should be able to reach. But they may be wrong -- we're doing the experiment to find out.
Part of the concern is due to the rather unfortunate use of the term "black hole" which got loads of people thinking about planet destroyng, sigularities gobbling up everything in their path as are commonly depicted in science fiction films.
The sort of thing that a "micro black hole' would be is very different. In fact for some years it was seriously considered that electrons might be micro black holes. Remember they are massive particles that seem to have no size (they are points) although that now seems unlikely hopefully you begin to see the picture.
It certainly won't be a case of switching on the LHC and going "Oh there's a Higgs - time for tea"
The Atlas detector will produce more data than pretty much any other item on the planet. Sorting and making sense of it will be a computational feat without parallel. The chance are that it'll take years to actually be sure that they exist and then studying their properties will take longer still.
The prize is to understand where mass comes from. THe Higgs Boson is believed to be a major missing link in our understanding of what everything is made of and a significant stepping stone to uniting relativity and quantum mechanics.
PS You can blame the Yanks for the slow start - One of Fermilabs pieces failed a "quench test" when the superconducting magnets were turned off one of their bits ripped itself apart because bracing had been missed.
Thankfully Fermilab haven't found a Higgs in the meantime or they'd have been handbags at dawn!
The sort of thing that a "micro black hole' would be is very different. In fact for some years it was seriously considered that electrons might be micro black holes. Remember they are massive particles that seem to have no size (they are points) although that now seems unlikely hopefully you begin to see the picture.
It certainly won't be a case of switching on the LHC and going "Oh there's a Higgs - time for tea"
The Atlas detector will produce more data than pretty much any other item on the planet. Sorting and making sense of it will be a computational feat without parallel. The chance are that it'll take years to actually be sure that they exist and then studying their properties will take longer still.
The prize is to understand where mass comes from. THe Higgs Boson is believed to be a major missing link in our understanding of what everything is made of and a significant stepping stone to uniting relativity and quantum mechanics.
PS You can blame the Yanks for the slow start - One of Fermilabs pieces failed a "quench test" when the superconducting magnets were turned off one of their bits ripped itself apart because bracing had been missed.
Thankfully Fermilab haven't found a Higgs in the meantime or they'd have been handbags at dawn!
There is a minute possibility that the energy of the collisions will be enough to produce micro-black holes, but as has been said, high energy incoming cosmic rays would produce them on a daily basis in the atmosphere anyway for millenia
However, that's not the end of the story, because any mini-holes produce by cosmic radiation will fly through the Earth at relativistic speeds, giving them little chance to interact with matter as they pass (much like neutrinos).
LHC mini-holes, though, will be pretty much at rest in comparison (if produced at all) and so will have more of a chance to interact with nearby matter (i.e. Earth), and so grow accordingly. This scenario, though, also relies upon the theoretical Hawking radiation not actually happening in reality, so they don't quickly evaporate into nothing anyway. But everyone is pretty confident that it does, so they will.
Of course if it doesn't, and they don't, and the LHC makes them, we're ********. Chances of this: bluddy tiny.
However, that's not the end of the story, because any mini-holes produce by cosmic radiation will fly through the Earth at relativistic speeds, giving them little chance to interact with matter as they pass (much like neutrinos).
LHC mini-holes, though, will be pretty much at rest in comparison (if produced at all) and so will have more of a chance to interact with nearby matter (i.e. Earth), and so grow accordingly. This scenario, though, also relies upon the theoretical Hawking radiation not actually happening in reality, so they don't quickly evaporate into nothing anyway. But everyone is pretty confident that it does, so they will.
Of course if it doesn't, and they don't, and the LHC makes them, we're ********. Chances of this: bluddy tiny.
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