Evolution or Iteration

[rov1200]

Now that scientists are able to build life from the available DNA is the process any different from when life first evolved from the hands of a more intelligent being?

[chakka35]

Don't understand the question. DNA itself is an advanced product of evolution which started with some very primitive life-form which we have not identified yet but which we will probably fabricate one day.

What 'more intelligent being'? Any living thing, intelligent or not, is a product of evolution and could not therefore have 'started it', so to speak. Please explain.

[rov1200]

For example Craig Venter is creating artificial life in the laboratory,

http://www.guardian.c...enetics.climatechange

Is he not just using techniques that led to our own creation?

[rov1200]

The method he uses to create artificial life. However he admits not starting at square one and his designs are on one of the higher branches of his evolutionary tree.

http://www.ted.com/ta...g_synthetic_life.html

[rov1200]

http://www.ted.com/ta...g_synthetic_life.html

[beso]

Actually the mechanism whereby life came about from mineral structures has be identified fairly conclusively as happening in alkaline vents in Olivine substrates on the bottom of the ocean. Minerals in from these vents produce tiny cell-sized bubbles and exhibit a reaction identical to the most fundamental energy producing reactions in living organisms.

No evidence has been found to contradict the hypothesis and over the next few years we will see acceptance that this mechanism is indeed how life started.

[rov1200]

This is a link to back up your theory Beso

http://www.newscienti...-the-first-cells.html

[squarebear]

So it wasn't a bloke with a beard on a throne who waved his hand about? How strange...

[chakka35]

We don't need to use words like 'creation', rov 1200 Once a very primitive form of life has appeared the evolution from there to modern complex forms of life, of which humans are just one, is automatic and inevitable.

[rov1200]

That may be your thoughts Chakka. Evolution may have played a part but there must have been a cook to create the recipe of life. That is why I mentioned iteration. The current scientists are capable of mixing together amino acids and genes to produce a basic form of life but it will get more sophisticated.

Without specifying the beginning of time it is not such a large step to believe that a more advanced being produced life as we know it now.

[mibn2cweus]

Evolution is the only viable explanation for where an asserted intelligent creator came to exist. The elements essential to the evolution of a living thinking creative being were not even present in the early universe but are a product of star death. It is only following the development of the means and ability to conjecture, that an intelligence with the capacity to create came into being. God is not only a product of but a dead end detour in the understanding of the process of evolution that made the unsupportable assertion of his existence possible.

The assertion of a creator of existence is no more rational than a desire to eat a cake for which the recipe has yet to be conceived, without so much as a thought to where you would find an oven to bake it in.

Only following the evolution of a being with the intelligence and capacity to create a universe will we come full circle. Asserting that such a being can possibly exist prior to a complex evolutionary process is a step backwards in our own evolution.

[rov1200]

Proof of Intelligent design and irreducible complexity

http://www.youtube.co...1PNcA&feature=related

[modeller]

The problem I always have, is that if we as humans insist that everything including the universe had to have been created by something then how was that something created and ad infinitum.

[chakka35]

rov1200, why must therehave been a cook? All 20 amino acids necessary to life have come about randomly when the chemicals and conditions that obtained thousands of millions of years ago are reproduced. Where was there a cook in that experiment?

I could not open the link you gave, but both intelligent design and irreducible complexity are easily debunked by sheer reasoning. I'd rather not go through it all again, but I will if you like.

[mibn2cweus]

All the link proves is that intelligence is a prerequisite for reducing complexity to an understanding of its parts and process and that flaunting what one is supposed to be in no way insures that they will not ride coattail on the reputation of those who built and practice it with integrity. Invoking the existence of an intelligent designer of necessarily inconceivable complexity only places that which you do not understand outside of any realm of possible comprehension.

Intelligent design is no more science than is mindless speculation or religious mysticism an avenue to truth.
Posing ID as a valid alternative to evolution is disingenuous at best and more likely a demonstration of the depths to which an overactive unbridled imagination will sink to present indisputable evidence of it own depravity as anyone engaged in a genuine search for the truth will soon discover.

The purpose of science is not to debunk any, each and every fallacious claim as quickly as the deceitful can fabricate them but to discover and present the evidence that will enable those engaged in an honest, rational pursuit of the actual nature of things to draw conclusions based on available facts rather than find them selves flailing about and drowning in an unyielding sea of supposition and mysticism posing as proof.

[mibn2cweus]

The evidence for life and evolution are all around you and understanding these processes reveals a beauty and grandeur you owe it to yourself as a potentially rational being to realise for yourself. Thanks to those with the courage to brave a voyage over the sea of uncertainty, leaving unsupportable preconceptions behind to seek out and follow the evidence where ever it may lead, much of the work has already been done for you and a firm foundation has already been laid. You only need to determine who is most able to provide the degree of understanding you crave along with the rewards that accompany it for yourself.

Those who believe god is self-evidently revealed by the shape of a cloud have only deceived themselves by refusing to question what it obscures and awaits to be discovered on the other side, a brilliant illuminating source of light and warmth that supports life, facilitates growth and nourishes curiosity.

[rov1200]

Chakka that link I gave about ID above is reachable and I would try again. Respected scientists have shown it is nigh impossible to produce this cell from evolution as all the parts need to be in place to make it workable. The cell in question behaves just like a motor with separate items that can only work if all the items are in place. They quote the anaolgy of a mousetrap with 5 separate parts to make it function. Take one part away and it becomes useless. Yet Darwin says evolution can only happen in a step wise fashion.

To get the whole story there are 7 separate chapters in this U-tube link but my one is just one of them..

[rov1200]

Darwin was at a disadvantage because of the knowledge at that time his examination of the cell was incomplete. Now scientists are able to reach to the molecular level and examine it in great detail.

We must progress on from a 200 year old thesis.

[rov1200]

You're right Modeller. Where does time start and what happened in the very beginning. But now we believe there are parallel universes and also multi dimensions and not just the 3 plus time to consider. But these scientists have not attempted to answer this, maybe in another period.

[rov1200]

Chakka I will repeat the link although the previous one did work

http://www.youtube.co...1PNcA&feature=related

[mibn2cweus]

Chakka, The name of the video rov's link points to is . . . brace yourself . . . ;o)

"Scientists presents Proof of Intelligent Design ! Charles Darwin - Origin of Species - Evolution Disproved, Refuted by Biologists and Scientists from Cambridge, Chicago, Munich universities ! Creation proved by Scientists ! Part 2 / 7"