What is beyond the universe?

[flobadob]

I watched the Big Bang programme on Panorama last night. I've never bought into the Big Bang Theory so it's nice to see that it is losing momentum among some scientists. Obviously no one can answer my question with any certainty so just your thoughts and theories are welcome. Basically what I am wondering is, if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? Is the universe creating time and space at its outer reaches as it expands?

[bibblebub]

You should try watching the program jake because the whole point of the program was that having a singular event such as a big bang, nothing to everything, is unacceptable to most cosmologists these days. However I did think that the inflation-deflation cyclical hypothesis had disappeared a long time ago.

[4846]

Everything that has a beginning has an end

[flobadob]

And supposedly a new beginning.

[mibn2cweus]

flobadob, Imagine the Earth as covered by one big ocean. Where would the centre of this ocean be? Sailors once feared to go to far out into the ocean afraid they would sail of the edge of the Earth only to find out later on you can sail round and round without ever reaching the edge . . . unless some land got in the way.

Such is our universe, no centre no edge, just an expanse extending in all directions beyond as far as the eye can see, only to continue on and on until finally reaching the point you're looking from.

[ABerrant]

...and then you look up into the sky!

[rov1200]

According to the Horizon program we expanded from a black hole that collapsed. If that is the case then there could be many more universes being generated from the black holes now in space. Taking that further the new universes would exist within our current universe. This may have already happened so that when we look into space we are looking at many universes overlapping.

[flobadob]

My thoughts exactly ABerrant. Awful analogy and not thought through. Perhaps black holes are the key. One leads to another, perhaps in a different universe, and we are all a singularity.

[jomifl]

the other side of a black hole is a big bang perhaps, does that mean that universes are getting smaller and smaller but more numerous?

[flobadob]

The only way I can get my head around any of it is now to assume that no matter where you go in the universe you will eventually encounter a black hole, all of which lead to either a central point, or a different black hole in another part of the universe or a completely different universe. And that is what I'm going to try and keep in my head. Therefore my answer to my own question of what you would see at the edge of the universe with your back to it, is a black hole leading to.....?

[jomifl]

What do you mean by 'beyond'? what do you mean by 'universe'? what do you mean by 'what'? sorry what was the question?

[mollykins]

Flobadob, I never understand how you could get something from nothing either and now I'm even more confused.

[mibn2cweus]

ABerrant, Opps! Did I neglect to mention that the universe has a third spacial dimension? Funny how we sometimes assume that the obvious need not be stated because it is, well . . . obvious.

[jomifl]

you mean like my living room?

[jomifl]

Molly, in maths there is zero, in the real world it seems nothing doesn't exist.

[mibn2cweus]

jomifl, Yeah, that's it. Just like your living room, only bigger, and without the walls, ceiling, or floor . . . and a lot more furniture, and, and . . . oh never mind!

[igtretd]

...does anyone else get irritated by Horizon programmes where, as soon as the words 'big bang' are spoken, there is a pathetic clip of some miserable chemical explosion that's presumably meant to convey the awesome nature of the big bang (if it ever happened)?

The ability of our brains (which only 6 million years ago were swinging through the trees atop of an ape-like creature) to even begin to speculate at what may have happened 14 billion years ago minus 10^-34 of a second s is truly impressive.

However, as attempts to explain the origins of the universe, not to mention a unified model of relativity and QM, dark energy and dark matter, appear to be encountering difficulties, physics seems to be in a similar position to that of the late 19th century i.e. ripe for some paradigm shifting new theories (and imho it isn't String Theory).

But are even our most brilliant ape-descended brains capable of coming up with such a theory? Current theories are beyond all but a handful of mathematicians and physicists notwithstanding all the analogues rolled out to try and explain the incomprehensible (it's only the maths that gives us an illusion of comprehension). Maybe the next step is one too far for our neurones.

[jake-the-peg]

//imho it isn't String Theory//

really? do tell why

[igtretd]

A combination of the effort invested to date and the lack of testable results....cf General Relativity

[ludwig]

I didn't see the programme but it sounds interesting. Is there any evidence to suggest that the universe is a 4d torus?

[ABerrant]

mibn2cweus - you conveniently left dimensions not traversible by your sailors out of your analogy so that it would work. It's no good now saying "the third spatial dimension.. is obvious" when your analogy depends on only two dimensions as proof that the sailor is returned to the point of original departure. Nobody can prove that the sailor travelling skyward is returned to the point of origin.