Corporal Punishment & The Birch!

[smudge]

Following on from the Conscription thread, Ewood mentioned that he/she is in favour of corporal punishment & the birch. I am too, very much so, but wondered what your views are on these procedures are!

[jenky]

For young offenders, it seems that image is everything, so humiliation in front of their peers would be an interesting thought. Maybe shoplifters could go in the stocks in town centres on Saturdays. We could all go and laugh at these little thugs, and hopefully they might not seem so intimidating to people that find them so.

[andy hughes]

I understand completely where the notion of punishment with these methods come from, but I honestly don't think it would work. The notion that young thugs will equate punishment with their bad behaviour requires a quantum leap in their ability to think outside the narow confines of their own lives. Such reasoning is usually beyond the ability of the average delinquent, and as such, punishment of this sort will simply be viewed by them as another unfortunate circumstance. That said, I'm not sure what the answer to the problem - I think it lies in educating adults in basic parenting skills. Respect for self and others is learned in the first few years of life - after that, it's an uphill struggle.

[smudge]

Hi Andy, I totally agree with your comments on parenting etc., & have posted similar comments on the 'Conscription' thread.

 

When I speak about corporal punishment, etc., it is in respect of murderers, rapists, muggers & any other specimen who is totally out of control.

 

Wouldn't the world be a nicer place without them! -x-

[ICEMANSAV]

I don't think that introducing the birch back into schooling will improve much. Afterall we only reflect back on society as it was when we were young and try to apply the same rules and values. Society changes and therefore the methods of punishment must adapt to cater for such change. Now with our compensation claim culture, then we will have badly behaved boys ( and girls to a lesser degree ) claiming thousands due to the bad back they have developed after countless reformation beatings! I also disagree that in order to get through to these trouble makers we need to use physical punishment. As it was posted in an earlier thread about National Service, I agree that this would be of benefit but only for the badly behaved as we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush!

I think we need to improve parenting before we start punishing the young for not being able to distinguish right from wrong.

[jenky]

To avoid the need for physical punishment and further over crowding of prisons, a system of semi-permanent facial tattooing could be introduced. If someone walked into a shop with "THIEF" tattooed on his face, you know where you stand. If someone walks down your road with "BURGLAR" across his face, a neighbourhood, gets a bit of warning, that might make them less vulnerable. As far as more serious crimes go, society can choose whether to shun those guilty or not. Just a thought!

[FP]

I don't believe in any form of corporal punishment.  I honestly believe that this will just make offenders more violent.  And who would adminster this type of punishment -  In my opinion, people that enjoy doing so.  I believe that violence breeds violence.

 

As I said in the conscription thread, I honestly believe we have to go back to old parenting and family values and, dare I say it, try to encourage one or other parent to be at home with their children while early values are learned.  At present, it seems that a stay at home mum or dad is considered to be 'odd'.

 

However, a way must be found to punish these young thugs.  Jenky's stocks idea perhaps.......  Personally, I think a lot of our towns could do with a good clean up, perhaps giving them some hard work to do under supervision might work??

 

[Peter Pedant]

Oh God I dont believe this!

As soon as conscription trails off, AB is repopulated with rabid hangers floggers and branders.

we need to remind ourselves that since capital punishment was abandoned, there have been a serious of high profile cases - usually terrorism, but other cases as well - the Luton post office fiasco is one - where the people convicted of serious crimes, erm havent actually done them.

This raises the question, of whether before hanging was abandoned, some people were hanged who had not er killed those they were convicted of. Timothy Evans is one. The indie yesterday had an article on Beck whose two cases. 1896, 1904 led to the establishment of the court of criminal appeal - now renamed. And now we have the extra judicial system whereby 'hard' cases are referred back to the Ct of Appeal because the Judges in certain cases cannot tell an innocent man from a guilty one.

[Philtaz]

With the advances in forensic science, fingerprinting and DNA profiling the days of wrongful conviction are almost at an end.

With this in mind I can think of no earthly reason why Roy Whiting(murdered and defiled young Sara Payne then smiled in the prison van after conviction) should not recieve the death penalty(he had molested another young girl previously).  The same goes for Ian Huntley, for the torture he put those poor girls parents through whilst awaiting the discovery of their bodies.  Child murderers and rapists are the worst scum of society and as such should not be allowed to live in relative comfort for such heinous crimes.  As well as losing their children the parents of such children recieve their own sentence, from which there is no escape.

To finnish, if the Government ever re-introduce the death penalty for such vermin and require an executor of sentence my name will be at the top of the applicants pile, and I'd certainly be able to sleep soundly at night.

[Philtaz]

In fact, here's a case in point from today.  Can anyone tell me why this creature should be allowed to live?  Could anyone explain their reasons to the parents?  I very much doubt it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3752132.stm

[Philtaz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3752132.stm

Sorry, hopefully the link will work on this post.

[apricot]

How did this question on corporal punishment turn into capital punishment.  The one argument against corporal punishment that nobody else seems to have considered is that it was well known that many of the people who delivered the punishment were cruel sadists who derived pleasure from the punishment.  I am sure that we should not go back to a system that allowed such people to take their pleasure on others.  The answer to to gain respect not fear.

[FP]

Agreed, Apricot.  That's what I meant in my answer when I said 'Who would deliver this type of punishment..... '

[Philtaz]

It progressed from corporal to capital punishment as a result of the answer by Peter Pedant I think you'll find.

[Ewood27]

Laws are made by the representatives of decent right-thinking people.  Taxes are paid by those same people and they form "society", the great mass of the population.  We are the people of the country and we pay the costs.  Why on earth should we continue endlessly to pay for the keep and care and the guarding of those who persistently refuse to accept our standards?  Why should we tolerate persistent thieves, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers?  We put down rogue dogs.  In wolf packs the alpha wolf himself kills juniors who are too undisciplined.  The world would be a much better place without many of those we pay for to stay in prison for just a few years.  As for the rare innocent person being executed, let's not forget that virtually ALL the victims of crime are innocent.

[smudge]

Hi all, I've been out all day & just got back & tuned in!  Apologies if my question has upset anyone, it wasn't intended & I agree that in some cases violence breeds further violence. Having said that, a friend once mentioned that a rap on the knuckles with a ruler, stopped him from passing notes to his girlfriend in class, when aged 10! I personally couldn't dish out any kind of corporal punishment as I'm a softie & I flinch when I see any kind of violence on TV. Hypocritical this may seem,  but perhaps I shouldn't have posted this question directly after reading yet more horror stories in the paper this morning  - not very wise!

 

Anyway,  steering away from corporal punishment & onto capital punishment - I get so frustrated when I see murderers, paedophiles, rapists, muggers & the kind, sticking their fingers up to society & the law. They have no respect for their poor victims, the victims families, or indeed anyone else but themselves.

 

As Philtaz & Ewood have expressed, why should we tolerate the likes of Brady, Hindley, Huntley, Whiting, etc., etc., spending time in prison, with luxuries that even some pensioners cannot afford. They are all scum & do not deserve to take another breath, especially after forensic science & the law have found them guilty of the above crimes.

 

 

[smudge]

OK,  there are pros & cons in respect of corporal punishment, but I do believe in capital punishment for the reasons previously given.

 

I've given you all 3x*** because all your replies were brilliantly written & I'd like to keep the peace! :~)  

[RogerK]

Just tuned in to this thread and it brought back memories of my junior school in the mid 70's. Our headmaster at the time was an alcoholic chainsmoker (he left rather suddenly in the end). By lunchtime he was unsteady on his feet and would give you the cane for absolutely no reason at all! I can remember getting a double dose for laughing at him when he tried to light the wrong end of a cigarette whilst giving us a rollocking!!! That doesn't seem very long ago but can you imagine the outcry if a head like that was discovered today! All the kids would be in to see psych's to assess the damage as well! We all grew up to be the usual cross section of society so I'm not sure it shaped our future behaviour adversely or otherwise.

[mullein]

There is something beastial in all of us that demands retribution for crimes against us, so corporal punishment would have closure for the victims of crime. But the reality is in this 21st century and at this time, the criminals are laughing at society. Most of them know they can do what ever they like and society pays the bills of solicitors, social services, etc.  Look how many institutions make money out of criminals. Corporal Punishment Smudge your having a laugh.  Mullein

[smudge]

mullein, I'm confused when you say I'm having a laugh, my sentiments are the same as yours aren't they? If not we'll agree to disagree, as everyone has a right to voice their own opinion.

[mullein]

My view is dis. The system supports criminals. There is a large industry created to support them solicitors, NHS, prison service, police,social services etc. This is a massive gravy train and there is no way that the government would take away this thick profitable gravy to replace it whith Capital 'Punishment'.  Crime is exploding because many of the serious criminals dont believe they will ever be caught and if they are no one worries about what sentence they'll get because it wont fit the crime anyway. Capital punishment smudge',  you must be having a laugh!.