Why Respect Authority?

[Elderman]

Respect for authority does not always come easily to us. Do you sometimes find it difficult to respect those who have a measure of authority over you? If so, you are not alone in this struggle. We live at a time when respect for authority seems to be at an all-time low. Yet, the Bible says that we need to show respect for those who hold positions of authority over us.
(1 PETER 2:17)

[naomi24]

So, this is all about God and discipline. Goodness, you do beat about the bush, Elderman!

1. Do you agree that more discipline is needed?

You don't state specific circumstances, but in some instances I would say yes, more is needed, in others, definitely not.

2. Do you appreciate discipline; that is, do you value it highly and do you profit from it?

Yes, I appreciate discipline when it is sensible, fair, and productive to all concerned. I deplore any other kind. I'm not sure what you mean by 'profit' from it. I am not subject to anyone else's idea discipline - only to my own self-discipline.

3. How about your religion in this respect?

Not applicable.

4. Does your religion respect you?

Not applicable.

5. Has it brought good results to you through discipline?

Not applicable.

6. If you feel it has, can you mention specific benefits?

Not applicable.



Hope I didn't leave any questions out.

[sandyRoe]

The rich man in his castle
The poor man at his gate
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

Who are we to argue with God's ordinance?

[Elderman]

What a different to mine.
3. How about your religion in this respect?

following the course that brings God’s approval.

4. Does your religion respect you?

Yes,treating women with honour and respect, Jesus revealed firsthand how God feels they should be treated.( Ephesians 5:33)

5. Has it brought good results to you through discipline?

Yes,discipline of the Christian congregation includes its rules and regulations that are based upon the principles and commandments of God’s Word the Bible,

6. If you feel it has, can you mention specific benefits?

Yes, because God promises to remove the wickedness and corruption from our earth by a “destruction of the ungodly men.” He then will see to it that this earth is turned into a global paradise where righteousness will prevail. Everyone will do the right, kind and just thing, for love will permeate all of society. (2 Pet. 3:7, 13)

[Bobbisox]

sorry EM but that sounds a bit a Sermon!

[cathfromsaron]

i'm not a fan of the bible, so can't comment on that, but i have recently found 'authority' needs to be lawfully challenged!! xx

[mibn2cweus]

I respect those who answer to the same final arbiter and ultimate authority as I do . . . reality.

[Carakeel]

I really don't see what part religion has anything to do with respecting authority or anyone else for that matter!! My parents taught me to respect everyone, regardless of rank, standing culture, ethnicity, religion, race etc. unless I came to a point where I found they did not deserve the respect I gave them. I don't agree when people simply answer "well, you have to earn respect." That presumes that you should not respect anyone until they have shown they deserve it. So does a baby have to "earn respect", a toddler etc.? What about the mentally ill, should we not show them respect? Shouldn't we treat all we meet with respect until they show us that they no longer deserve it? Why respect authority? Well, mostly it is usually us, our parents, or the general public, or representatives of the general public who have put them into these positions for the general good. This does not mean we cannot question their authority, when we feel they are getting things wrong. But this can and should always be done in a civilised manner, not in the way so many of our young now deal with it! It isn't even that the youngsters here often don't respect authority ... they don't respect anyone, not even themselves. This cliche of "we don't get no respect" we keep hearing is just a joke, as I don't think these kids actually know what the word respect means. Sad really, as if they showed more respect, they would get more!

[naomi24]

//God promises to remove the wickedness and corruption from our earth by a “destruction of the ungodly men.”//

So ungodly men are, by the very fact that they are ungodly, wicked and corrupt? I'm ungodly, but I don't believe I'm either wicked or corrupt. In fact I'd say quite the opposite. Unlike you, I wouldn't condone destroying anyone - and I certainly wouldn't take pleasure in the idea as you appear to - so logically my capacity to love my fellow man far exceeds yours. Nevertheless, you're quite happy to accept that an imaginary monster will destroy me and anyone like me. That's Christianity for you! And you wonder why intelligent people who remain in control of their own intellect and reject your hateful superstitious doctrine think you're nuts! Religion - all of it - is a blight on this whole planet!

[Carakeel]

Hear, hear, Naomi!

[naomi24]

Well, it makes me sick, Carakeel! I enjoy discussing religion - but how dare he tell other people they're doomed! He has no evidence, he has no proof, and therefore he has no right! I know people whose lives have been ruined by people like him spreading their hateful doctrine and scaring the wits out of them as children. The only authority his damned God has is the authority people like Elderman allow their imaginary friend to have over them!

[Carakeel]

Totally agree naomi! I was raised in a Catholic family, by wonderful parents. But, being Irish, they never questioned their religion. You were brought up to abide by what the church said. My doubts came at an early age when I went to an Ursuline convent ... extremely strict nuns who lied, bullied and hit us etc. Of course our parents were told otherwise. The priests and nuns, not my parents, taught me that if I did anything the slightest bit naughty, I was a bad person and would burn in hell. It terrified me! All of the things they told me terrified me! To this day, my mother still tells me what a good little girl I was. Well, yeah!! But, I soon realised that so many of these religious people were in fact not good people at all. I was beaten by nuns and abused by a priest and told I must never say anything about it as firstly, nobody would believe me and secondly, I would be ostracised by the community and burn in hell. So, I shut up, never even told my mother and father. At a point in my late 30s , when I was told I would die of cancer with a few weeks, I finally told my mother. My father had already died, so he never knew. It took me many years, in fact until my late 50s to fully free myself from religion and become an atheist. I wish I could have felt this free all of my life! ratter was a wonderful support in this change in my life! This was a case where I should not have respected authority, but did and lived to regret it. I am so glad that both of my oldest grand daughters are far stronger people than I was at that age and are atheists!

[boxtops]

I respect people until they show me otherwise - some follow a variety of religions, some follow none - their faith (or not) bears no relationship to whether or not I respect that person.

[Elderman]

naomi24, Love “does not become provoked” or “keep account of the injury.” Not only does anger damage relationships, but it is also injurious to health, placing a strain on the heart. (Prov. 14:30)

[naomi24]

Elderman, what utter contradictory tripe you talk. Yes, love does become provoked - and so it should! May I remind you that your perfect example of humanity, Jesus Christ, became violently provoked at what he considered to be wrong-doing - but we'll conveniently overlook that, shall we?

And in a case such as Carakeel's, love becomes provoked with damned good reason! Someone needs to speak up for those unable to protect themselves - and it seems to me that isn't going to be you because you're too busy congratulating yourself on your supposed insight - and on your supposed first class ticket into a fantasy life beyond. What absolute tosh! You know no more about God, life, or the alleged afterlife than anyone else - and neither do your happy-clappy, self-praising TV evangelists.

If you, as a human being, do not feel an innate sense of anger at the abhorrant doctrine and horrific injustice that religious philosophy inflicts upon a child's mind, then you don't know the meaning of the word 'love' - and neither the bible, nor all the self-righteous sermonising you spout is ever going to teach you. The self-obsessed are devoid of compassion for their fellow man, and they are oblivious to truth.

'Love one another' are the only words attributed to Jesus that really mean anything at all. Religion is superfluous because those words say it all - and no one on this earth needs more than that. Even if Jesus didn't exist - which, historically, could well be the case - as an atheist that is the philosophy I try to adhere to. However, it seems those words don't sit well with you, because they don't make you and your sorry soul paramount. You prefer to think of yourself as one of the chosen ones - and frankly, if the rest aren't going to do as you say, then sod them! I've asked you about principles. No surprise I received no answer!

I tell you Elderman, if believing in the evil that your God promotes means spending eternity with people as arrogant, as sanctimonious, and as sycophantic as you, then I'm glad you think I'm destined for the other place! To any sincere, caring, honest human being, it's preferable.

If hell exists, I've no doubt whatsoever I'll see you there!

Carakeel. Much love to you. x

[wildwood]

Demanding respect by fear is not a sensible way to display authority.

Did his Lordship not say about his followers; “These are the ones I look on with favour: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word".

[lcg]

i feel nobody has authority over me - i do as i please, when and where i want. however, i am aware of my personal and social morality and boundaries around what is acceptable (to me!)...and the consequences which will occur if i choose to ignore them. this, of course includes illegal behaviour, things which others may judge me by (and stop me doing something i want - not that i care what anyone else thinks!) or something else which i felt would be unacceptable.

i pretty much do as i please: i work because i wish to have a certain standard of living, for example, so i have to consider what is acceptable practice, conduct and qualities to continue my employment, however, i would also be quite happy sitting on my arse on disability benefits (been there before!) which requires significantly less effort, but is not all hearts and roses and brings problems of it's own along for the ride. i am very much my own person in my relationship and again do as i please - mr kicker does also; but of course we work at our relationship, love and respect one another and know what is acceptable within our marriage.

for me, this question seems to ultimately filter down to: do i respect and defer to authority? the answer to this is no - i don't respect anyone who doesn't respect me, themselves or others to a certain degree. plenty of people i have met in positions of 'authority' are there for the wrong reasons - police or mental health nurses who do the job for the power trip; teachers who make pupils lives a misery because they don't fit their ideal of a submissive or traditionally bright pupil; and 'jobsworths' - the scum of the earth!

i certainly don't 'just' respect authority because it is there and that is how others feel. i respect those who reciprocate with others around them; have a decent moral compass; and are good human beings. a good example of this is my working relationship with doctors who i work with (i'm a psych nurse). i am probably the only staff member who doesn't run around after them (to get patients, paperwork or other stuff they may not know about). some seem to think that nurses were put on this earth to organise their own workload; fetch and carry; or are inferior to them in some way - my response is joe bloggs is in such and such a room, which is down there....or the meds cards are where they always have been (i.e. the clinic!)...or you're sat in my chair and the other computers are next door. some really don't like it, attempt to coerce me to do stuff or are actually silly enough to try and make me - and they get told fairly quickly where to get off.

i also greet people on an equal footing regardless of who they are (the matron, a cleaner, or the bigwig boss - you never know when someone may be useful to you and everybody is equal in my eyes!) by saying 'hello john, how are things?' instead of 'good morning professor' and 5 Easy-Steps-to-Promotion like some of my colleagues, which i think is very demeaning. and anyway, they call me by my first name, so what's the big deal? the decent doctors are those who don't expect preferential treatment and, like myself, treat others as they would like to be dealt with.

lastly, anything written in the bible (particularly that of the op) should be taken with a pinch of salt - some of the other stuff it comes out with and is 'used' by christians to judge others; justify questionable values and behaviour (which is sometimes, frankly, disgusting; and is terribly out of date - it just doesn't have a place in our multicultural, diverse world with all of it's modern complexities. people can have good, decent morals, behaviour and opinions without someone telling them what to do or is carried out because they are afraid of being ostracised by others around them (in their own 'righteous' cultural setting, remember) - religion and it's 'teachings' is certainly one of the reasons that i have in not respecting authority and accepting things blindly...it is abused by those who preach it to others x

[jake-the-peg]

The key point is *recognition of authority*

This is why Elderman refuses to answer my question about the Catholic Church - because he doesn't recognise their authority.

He wants us to recognise authority of God - yet we don't because we see it as a false authority represented by lies and fantasy.

In much the same way I'm sure he sees the authority of the Pope.


Respect for civillian authority generally comes pretty well to most of us on here - I think we all recognise and respect the authority of Government.

We may bitch and moan but I don't think many of us engage in civil disobedience.

The observation that respect for authority is at an all time low is reactionary rot.

Respect for traditional authority figures loike the church and elders may be falling away but that is not the same thing.

That is change

Change is good

Without change we'd still be touching our forelocks to the squires son and be in domestic service to the landed gentry

[jno]

The observation that respect for authority is at an all time low is reactionary rot

You think so, jake? How many people respect MPs? or Cameron, Blair or Brown? How many respect the royal family? Church leaders? The bankers who hold our money?

You may think all these are undeserving of respect, and fair enough. But which authorities do you think are still getting respect the way they used to? I'm hard pressed to think of any.