If the universe was finite, would you believe in a creator?

[flobadob]

Imagine that the universe consisted of just our galaxy for example. It would give us enough interest to explore it knowing there was nothing else to find out about. If this was the case, would you find it easier to believe in an actual creator of said universe, rather than having to believe in a supposed creator of a universe which is, in effect constantly being created?

[flobadob]

It's sad that we may never know.

[Harry-Wragg]

For god to create a finite universe implies that he/she/it couldn't create an infinite one, therefore the universe must be infinite (a bit like him/her/itself)

[trt]

Space cant go on forever, yet it cant have an end.

Does my head in sometimes thinking about it!!!!

[Harry-Wragg]

Could god create a puzzle which he/she/it couldn't solve?

[Clanad]

Pedantically... two things... Nothing with a beginning can be infinite. The universe had begining, hence it is not infinite.

Secondly, everything that exists today and constitutes the universe was once compacted into a singularity that when released as the Big Bang (neither Big, nor a Bang, I might add) was space... as well as everything that's part of space. Incidently... for various reason, the geometry of the (U)niverse is probably flat, like a sheet of paper... not a sphere. A slim possibility exists that is may be saddle shaped.
Here's interesting reading for along winter's night:

http://csep10.phys.ut...smology/geometry.html

[naomi24]

If the universe consisted just of our galaxy, it might give me food for thought.

May I just say, Flob, you ask some excellent questions. You're a real 'thinker'. Great stuff! :o)

[jake-the-peg]

To be even more pedantic the universe did not have a begining.

To have a begining there would have to be a time when it did not exist.

This is not believed to be the case therefore the Universe could be infinite.


The multi-big-bangs idea is interesting and has been gaining ground in recent years, attracting some big names like Roger Penrose.

I think it would be fair to say it is still a minority opinion though

[Old_Geezer]

Even were it not to have a beginning, which I personally doubt, then the fact that we are, in the main, convinced we know it was once finite, and indeed very small, is enough to realise it can not now be infinite. To be infinite it would have to either always been so, or to have undergone an expansion at an infinite rate at some point. Neither of which I consider likely, but there again I may be in the minority.

BTW one can choose not to do something one is able to do. We all restrain ourselves when necessary. So a deity's option not to make an infinite universe remains an option.

[jake-the-peg]

The Universe could of course be finite but unbounded, that is there doesn't have to be something outside it.

In the same way the Earth has a finite surface area but you don't fall off the edge.

If you imagine the Universe such that if you could go far enough in one direction you'd end up where you started, then it would have the shape of a 4D torus.

Again a possibility but I think against current opinion as there doesn't seem to be enough matter to make that the case.

The Universe's shape is determined by the soultion to what are called the Einstein Field Equations and the amound of matter determines that.

[douglas9401]

If the universe is all there is, what's it expanding into?

[emmie]

Nope

[chakka35]

To get back to the question, why is an absurd idea made less absurd by limiting its scope?

A unicorn is horselike creature with a conical horn which can do magical things. Would it make me more inclined to believe in it if you told me that there is only one of them not a whole stable?

[Old_Geezer]

It's not expanding into anything douglas9401. That's the point; it's just expanding, creating it's own space as it goes. Perhaps easier to visualise if you consider that everything inside the universe is shrinking instead, including all measuring sticks ? Just don't take that view too seriously.

[Clanad]

"Creating its own space as it goes", isn't exactly what is declared in the majority of current thought (among the pointy-headed)... the Universe is it's own space... i.e. every thing there is once was the singularity and as it expands it expands into nothing since it literally carries its own space with it... it creates nothing.

Jake, of course, expects a retort on the "time" thing... but since that discussion has been flogged to near death, I'll forgo the pleasure. Have a nice Columbus Day (at least here in the U.S.)!

[Old_Geezer]

I wouldn't know, My formal further education wasn't in physics, that would be far too much fun, and would have seemed less useful to me on the reasonably paying job market when I was that age. But my thoughts are that unless one considers space is less dense today than it was a million years ago, then the universe presumably has more space now than then. Denser space eh ? The mind boggles. Where would they put it all ?

[douglas9401]

Maybe I'll just think of it as quantitative easing that disappears into a black hole.

[joko]

that woudl imply that the only reason so many dont believe is because the universe is infinite...

that the very least of the reasons not to believe...

[mibn2cweus]

If a god ever created anything it was not lacking by any stretch of the imagination in places to hide. Have any believers ever thought to ask themselves what or who on Earth their cosmic fugitive creator friend might be hiding from . . . his followers perhaps?

[Carakeel]

No, I can't see that this would make me believe in a creator any more than I believe in one now. :o)

[naomi24]

Yes, Carakeel, of course you are right. Why would it change my mind? It wouldn't.