Did You Ever?

[CailinDeas]

Visit a fortune teller/clairvoyant etc? Did what was said make any sense to you?

[Old_Geezer]

They're mediums Baby_Sham, not fortune tellers nor clairvoyants.

[jno]

jim360, nungate says she knew many things about her... looking at it from a purely rational point of view, what would be the odds against that, statistically?

For a fortune-teller to describe your father's dog... what are the possibilities? That the fortune-teller knew nungate: but nungate says not. That she tells the same story to all her customers, knowing that 99.9% of them will conclude that she's rubbish. That she has some sort of undiscovered sixth sense. It's not easy to decide which of those is the most plausible.

I've never visited one myself and have no opinion, but when this question comes up, there always seem to be people who say a fortune-teller told the past and the future accurately (as there are in this thread). A rational response needs to take account of this.

[Old_Geezer]

In fact reading though it seems many here don't realise the difference.

[Old_Geezer]

OK to be fair I'll update my first post before being criticised. Mediums can claim to use clairvoyance to communicate.

Cloverjo. "I once went to a spiritualist church ....I left knowing it was a load of rubbish."

You formed this conviction on a single visit ? One gets evening when the evidence is unconvincing either because the medium is not particularly good or is having an off day, and other times you get stuff that is simply not explainable it terms of being able to deduce stuff by looking, or making vague guesses, or the person getting information for the medium being a moron. One needs to go regularly until one gets a message oneself regarding things that could not have been know. Then you have something to think about.

[Old_Geezer]

.. person getting information from the medium ...

like I typed >:-(

[Peter Pedant]

.

A friend did - the glairvoyant gave my father a lancashire millowner's accent when in fact he had a Yarpie one. We gave up after that.....

[boxtops]

You've got to want to believe in it, I don't, I wouldn't consult one of them. Nothing I need or want to know that I don't know already.

[jim360]

I'm afraid I don't know what the odds against someone having an elderly relative who owns a little white dog are, but even if I did I don't think it would change much. You would also have to demonstrate that:

-- there were no physical signs that might have led to the woman who said it (e.g. if nungate had recently visited her father there may be a stray dog hair or two);
-- the woman did not already know the information, or was not made aware of it some other way just prior to saying it;
-- nungate was the only person she gave that reading to, or at least not the only person she gave that reading to correctly.

And probably many other things besides. Even if all of this turned out to be true, other questions that would need answering might include: how did the woman say this -- all at once: ", ah yes, your father has a little white dog", or somewhat slower, "I'm seeing a dog... small... white ... your father's?", at each step waiting for some subtle visual sign of confirmation that a lot of us can't help giving away.

It doesn't necessarily apply even 15 years ago now, but also a lot more people know each other without having met or even discussed it than ever before. I was freaked out for a while when someone I'd never met before asked me how the Listener crossword that day was going. ?!?!, I thought. Turns out that he'd seen me on UC, seen me say that I was on UC on this site, and matched that name to my posts in the Crosswords section on AB. Nothing mysterious going on there -- I've revealed a lot about myself which any competent stalker could find if they wanted. Granted, this is something that you couldn't really do before the days of the internet as easily -- but that is yet another thing to be ruled out.

I think Derren Brown for example is able to do a lot of this sort of thing, but acknowledges that it is of course a trick, or at least nothing mysterious or as yet unknown. I'm inclined to believe that all clairvoyants/ mediums/ fortune-tellers are relying on the same techniques he uses, or at least similar ones, until someone proves otherwise.

[marval]

I have never been to one, and I don't think I want to.

[mikey4444]

100% drivel.

[ladybirder]

I can almost echo nungate's post. Highly sceptical, determined not to answer any questions but wasn't asked any , in fact I don't think I spoke other than to say hello and goodbye. Strolling along the front at either Scarborough or Whitby, can't remember which, with two of my children and they persuaded me to go in to see this Gypsy Rose Lee type person. So reluctantly I did. She held my hand (I think) stared into her crystal ball and told me 3 or 4 things that were spot on, the main ones being the number of children I had, that I had two boys in uniform, and that my youngest child had caused me a lot of heartache and she was sorry to tell me that he would continue to do so .... he died a few years later. So my answer to the OP is Yes.

[jim360]

The other thing of course is the catch-all statement that can mean a lot but is interpreted specifically. Someone can "cause a lot of heartache" in a number of ways -- running away from home, getting involved in some crime or other, making some life choice that is against their parents' wishes, and, dying. I don't wish to seem cold-heated for your loss, ladybirder. But with so many possibilities such a prediction can't be thought of as remarkable.

Final thought (well, probably not, but): Very few people pay much attention to the times a fortune-teller gets it wrong. These instances need to be counted as well as the successful readings. Only then can you compare this with the idea that this is random chance or cold reading.

[jno]

well, see ladybirder's post as well, jim. nungate said her father was dead, so this probably rules out the "recent visit" possibility.

Youi're right about needing figures for comparison, and I doubt that's going to happen. My query relates to when a fortune-teller gets not one but several facts about a person right. It might be possible to track someone who's been on UC; but when you've got a tent on the beach and have to deal with any passerby who walks in, this must lessen the possibility of doing prior research.

As for subtle cues... you may be right, but both nungate and ladybirder claim to have said nothing. Perhaps they could confirm whether the respective fortune-tellers they saw also said things that were dead wrong?

[jim360]

Yes, probably -- maybe ought to have read the post better!

I'm not very good at it myself, but many people can be read far clearer than they think they can -- so even if they think they gave no signs it's possible, indeed probable, that they did.

Anyway, it's a moot point without being there myself. But, once again, assuming all of my suggestions to not be the truth, then these are extraordinary claims, and so require extraordinary evidence.

[jno]

I'm not sure what sort of evidence you'd need in order to weigh such things up - perhaps a sort of GypAdvisor website on which customers could rate them for accuracy. Otherwise, although judging them by results would be an excellent route, there's simply no way of collating the results.

Nonetheless - although most people who've tried one think they're rubbish, there are always a few who've gone in sceptical and come out startled.

[ladybirder]

jno, she didn't tell me very much because I only had a very short £5 reading. Being sceptical and being pushed into it by my children I wasn't going for the long version which was quite a bit more money. But I can say hand on heart, what she did tell me was spot on, she didn't get anything wrong at all. I made sure I kept a poker face as well and didn't react to anything she told me, being very aware that I could inadvertently be giving information and actually feeling a bit ridiculous. In that short time she told me how many children and what sex, two in uniform, one causing heartache and will continue to do so, marital status/love life. I was sorely tempted to give her more money and have a longer reading but I didn't. She didn't ask me if she was right either. I just thanked her and got up and left. I'm still sceptical though, I don't know how she did it. Maybe that she was very lucky. Oh and she stared at the ball all the time, never looked at me except when I entered and exited the booth. Strange. Very strange.

[jim360]

Thanks for the extra details, lb.

[gness]

I once read tarot cards for a group of friends for a fun evening...well the drink helped.
I told one guy that he wouldn't be alone for long....he would meet a man of the cloth...exchange house keys...fall in love and move in together.....
A few months latter at a choral get together in a Cathedral he met a man of the cloth.......and they are still living happily together but I no longer read tarot cards....:-) x

[naomi24]

I haven't had time to read all the posts - but I will.

Fortune Tellers are dangerous charlatans who prey on the vulnerable - but I do have some experience of so called 'clairvoyants' - and one in particular made absolute sense. I can't fault him.

[jno]

interesting, thanks, ladybirder.

In essence, just one person able to do that consistently proves that it can be done, even if 99.9% of them are fakes.