Are People Really That Stupid …
Society & Culture1 min ago
Gun Deaths In America
14 Answers
I am posting this here, as I am not sure where else to post it, so please bear with me. This makes for interesting reading, especially for those that still deny that America has a problem with gun owndership :::
http://
Scroll down to where it gives details of homicide rates.....Is there now any doubt that America has a violent and gun-toting culture ? According to the link,
"So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country"
http://
Scroll down to where it gives details of homicide rates.....Is there now any doubt that America has a violent and gun-toting culture ? According to the link,
"So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country"
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I don't think too many here would deny that there is a problem. The overriding issue is how one gets from a 'gun common' to a 'gun rare' society. Many would not see the transition as being better that removing the problem when the "good guys" give up their arms first and there is a long period of trying to block supply and remove the "bad guy's" guns from society. Even here we are seeing increased use of firearms by criminals, I think mainly due to the influence of other cultures gaining a foothold here: not to mention the ease of smuggling in guns from other areas of the world where they are not as civilised as even ourselves.
While I agree that "factual" sources abound within Google (and other intenet sources) one cannot ignore the footnoted discussion in sites such as this:
http://
I've often stated that reliance on "third parties" (police, etc.) for the safety of my family is abhorent I also have stated that, while there appears to be a relationship between gun ownership and the mass killings that occur with frightening repitition, an in-depth study of such events reveal often that the events would not have been averted solely on banning of gun ownership. In most cases the guns used were illegally obtained, meaning we don't especailly need more gun laws but, rather, enforcement of existing laws.
Personally, I strongly believe there is a close relationship of such violent events and the U.S. government's change in the way it finance treatment those afflicted with mental problems and illnesses.
Back in the '70's or so, the hospitals were suddenly nearly emptied by the reliance on out-patient drug treament rather than incarceration that had been in place for decades. Could be wrong, of course, but the two events seem to have a discernible parralell...
http://
I've often stated that reliance on "third parties" (police, etc.) for the safety of my family is abhorent I also have stated that, while there appears to be a relationship between gun ownership and the mass killings that occur with frightening repitition, an in-depth study of such events reveal often that the events would not have been averted solely on banning of gun ownership. In most cases the guns used were illegally obtained, meaning we don't especailly need more gun laws but, rather, enforcement of existing laws.
Personally, I strongly believe there is a close relationship of such violent events and the U.S. government's change in the way it finance treatment those afflicted with mental problems and illnesses.
Back in the '70's or so, the hospitals were suddenly nearly emptied by the reliance on out-patient drug treament rather than incarceration that had been in place for decades. Could be wrong, of course, but the two events seem to have a discernible parralell...
Interesting post Clanad !
The point I would like to make is this. We in Britain have our share of mad people as well, just like you do in America. Most of them are undiagnosed and live amongst us.
But the big difference between America and Britain is that you're mad people have free and easy access to an astonishingly large and powerful collection of guns. What occurred at Sandy Hook could happen again this afternoon and then again tomorrow, for ever after. This must be of concern to some Americans but not enough of you it would seem, and that is what we over here find so hard to understand.
After the last massacre in Britain, by a mad person with a gun, in Dunblane, nearly 20 years ago, widespread revulsion and horror manifested itself in extremely strict gun law changes. But I see no similar united wave of horror in America, after any similar massacres. At least none that lasts more than a day or two.
We have a saying over here which goes something like " todays news is tomorrows chip-shop wrappings"
Americans who are really concerned about the massacres of innocent people need to get their act together. This is an extract from the Wiki entry for the Dunblane affair :::
"A small group, known as the Gun Control Network was founded in the aftermath of the shootings and was supported by some parents of victims at Dunblane and of the Hungerford Massacre. Bereaved families and their friends also initiated a campaign to ban private gun ownership, named the Snowdrop Petition (because March is snowdrop time in Scotland), which gained 705,000 signatures in support and was supported by some newspapers, including the Sunday Mail, a Scottish newspaper whose own petition to ban handguns had raised 428,279 signatures within five weeks of the massacre"
Surely its not beyond ordinary Americans from doing something similar ?
The point I would like to make is this. We in Britain have our share of mad people as well, just like you do in America. Most of them are undiagnosed and live amongst us.
But the big difference between America and Britain is that you're mad people have free and easy access to an astonishingly large and powerful collection of guns. What occurred at Sandy Hook could happen again this afternoon and then again tomorrow, for ever after. This must be of concern to some Americans but not enough of you it would seem, and that is what we over here find so hard to understand.
After the last massacre in Britain, by a mad person with a gun, in Dunblane, nearly 20 years ago, widespread revulsion and horror manifested itself in extremely strict gun law changes. But I see no similar united wave of horror in America, after any similar massacres. At least none that lasts more than a day or two.
We have a saying over here which goes something like " todays news is tomorrows chip-shop wrappings"
Americans who are really concerned about the massacres of innocent people need to get their act together. This is an extract from the Wiki entry for the Dunblane affair :::
"A small group, known as the Gun Control Network was founded in the aftermath of the shootings and was supported by some parents of victims at Dunblane and of the Hungerford Massacre. Bereaved families and their friends also initiated a campaign to ban private gun ownership, named the Snowdrop Petition (because March is snowdrop time in Scotland), which gained 705,000 signatures in support and was supported by some newspapers, including the Sunday Mail, a Scottish newspaper whose own petition to ban handguns had raised 428,279 signatures within five weeks of the massacre"
Surely its not beyond ordinary Americans from doing something similar ?
What certainly is true is that the number of guns available in the US already make it very difficult to tighten gun laws in practice without allowing for a period where, frankly, chaos would reign. The frustration amongst many at the moment is probably because many Americans would not even recognise that the proliferation of deadly weapons -- in particular those that can't even be claimed as "defensive" (a handgun I can understand, but a semi-automatic assault weapon is just fundamentally not for self-defence) -- is a problem.
PP...as long as Americans continue to fail to apply some common sense and make the connection between huge stock piles of inappropriate weaponry, and the continual murder of innocent people, they will be condemned to keep repeating what we see on our News reports on an almost weekly basis. The answer is in their own hands.
I've posted the "gun facts" link before and, although some of the data is somewhat dated, none ever responds to the information therein, leading me to believe as interesting and pertinent as the site is, it's not being read. Probably true of most supporting links people post in sites such as this…
Here's but 1/2 of the data concerning Britain:
Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.
Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17
Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18
Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.” 19.
(Numbers at the end represent footnotes in the primary link...
Here's but 1/2 of the data concerning Britain:
Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.
Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17
Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18
Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.” 19.
(Numbers at the end represent footnotes in the primary link...
Yes Clanad, violent crime is an issue in the UK. But mikey posted primarily about gun deaths, and the two are NOT synonymous. Gun death rates in the US are far greater than in the UK.
Incidentally, your linked article informs me that the UK has a homicide rate just 9% of that of the US. But it also claims (as a Fact) that "Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates." How does that gel ? It casts a huge doubt on the article in my mind.
I would, given some of the facts in the link, perhaps modify Mikey's original statement to read ".... America has a gun-toting culture"
Incidentally, your linked article informs me that the UK has a homicide rate just 9% of that of the US. But it also claims (as a Fact) that "Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates." How does that gel ? It casts a huge doubt on the article in my mind.
I would, given some of the facts in the link, perhaps modify Mikey's original statement to read ".... America has a gun-toting culture"
The best speech I've ever heard on guns in Am4erica was by an Australian stand up, Jim Jefferies. I'm not posting a link as some of his material may offend people. If you are of the opinion that the American obsession with their right to gh so us a even little wrong, I recommend you look up his gun law sketch on you tube.says everything I would want to say.
Clanad...It appears that you have fundamentally misunderstood my argument, and the problem, and we have been here before.
We in Britain haven't had a mass shooting since Dunblane....but you in America experience these sad events on a very regular basis. The longer you and your fellow American citizens continue to deny that these massacres are facilitated by the extreme ease of gun ownership, the longer the situation will go on.
If some kind of gun control isn't introduced, more people will die. The choice is yours.
We in Britain haven't had a mass shooting since Dunblane....but you in America experience these sad events on a very regular basis. The longer you and your fellow American citizens continue to deny that these massacres are facilitated by the extreme ease of gun ownership, the longer the situation will go on.
If some kind of gun control isn't introduced, more people will die. The choice is yours.
keyplus90:-"Their economy depends on sale of weapons. Majority abroad but still a few at home too. So they have to use it somewhere. "
That is the moral hazard inherent in capitalism/free market; I do not agree with "So they have to use it somewhere. " though.
Clanad, as you should well know, statistics and cherry picked facts (the type loved by politicians et al ) can be gross disinformation... and such [possibly] deliberate mis/disinformation continually by authorities may be why one portion of the pro-gun lobby FEAR their own governments and want their own guns in consequence.
"Hours before San Bernardino shooting, doctors urged Congress to lift funding ban on gun violence research"
https:/
The youtube clip is an interesting discussion with a pro-gun US man talking about ways stop massacres like the one in San Berbnadino
That is the moral hazard inherent in capitalism/free market; I do not agree with "So they have to use it somewhere. " though.
Clanad, as you should well know, statistics and cherry picked facts (the type loved by politicians et al ) can be gross disinformation... and such [possibly] deliberate mis/disinformation continually by authorities may be why one portion of the pro-gun lobby FEAR their own governments and want their own guns in consequence.
"Hours before San Bernardino shooting, doctors urged Congress to lift funding ban on gun violence research"
https:/
The youtube clip is an interesting discussion with a pro-gun US man talking about ways stop massacres like the one in San Berbnadino
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