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Bbc News, Integrtion Has Not Worked With Muslims
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just heard it on news, they were talking about muslims integrating into germany and merkel now has a massive task on her hands to find a solution to the problem, they talked about the problems that faced france and jaques chirac banning of the burhka etc when he was in charge, german security experts are now saying that they believe isis teams are active in germany asfter coming into the country disquised as refugees , wow really !! .
for me , the fact is that muslims cant intergrate fully with western society, i mean look what they are taught in their koran , such verses here - “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123 also here - Quran 8:59-60 / Quran 2:286 / Quran 3:147 / Quran 8:12 /
“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51
so there you have it in black and white, how to hell can these people fit in with us, i cannot see any solution to the problem.
merkel and co have only added to the problems .
for me , the fact is that muslims cant intergrate fully with western society, i mean look what they are taught in their koran , such verses here - “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123 also here - Quran 8:59-60 / Quran 2:286 / Quran 3:147 / Quran 8:12 /
“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51
so there you have it in black and white, how to hell can these people fit in with us, i cannot see any solution to the problem.
merkel and co have only added to the problems .
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birdie - //AH - “... I offer my view. I am not trying to pretend my view is backed up by knowledge...”
Translation - “I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking about.”.
Amazing. You have stated publicly that you don't have a clue about Islam. Your admission that you are an ignoramus on Islamic texts, teachings, meanings and interpretations is appreciated. Thank you. //
It would appear that you have completely ignored my previous post, when I went to considerable lengths to confirm that an opinion is not always validated by the amount of knowledge behind it. For example - I have never seen a man hanged, but I have a view on capital punishment.
So although I think perhaps the use of the term 'ignoramus' is a little harsh, I am willing to admit my absence of knowledge in many areas, but, and this is the important thing, that does not prevent me, or indeed anyone else, from holding and expressing an opinion.
I am not claiming to be an 'expert' - I leave that to others. Of course, I have no reason to believe that they actually know any more than I do, but that is up to them.
Translation - “I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking about.”.
Amazing. You have stated publicly that you don't have a clue about Islam. Your admission that you are an ignoramus on Islamic texts, teachings, meanings and interpretations is appreciated. Thank you. //
It would appear that you have completely ignored my previous post, when I went to considerable lengths to confirm that an opinion is not always validated by the amount of knowledge behind it. For example - I have never seen a man hanged, but I have a view on capital punishment.
So although I think perhaps the use of the term 'ignoramus' is a little harsh, I am willing to admit my absence of knowledge in many areas, but, and this is the important thing, that does not prevent me, or indeed anyone else, from holding and expressing an opinion.
I am not claiming to be an 'expert' - I leave that to others. Of course, I have no reason to believe that they actually know any more than I do, but that is up to them.
Ludwig’s analogy posted yesterday elsewhere of this on-going farce between andy-hughes and people who have studied Islam summed the situation up perfectly. Ludwig said that if someone claimed Phil Collins had been a member of the Beatles, Andy Hughes would have no hesitation in telling them they were wrong – and of course, rightly so. In this instance Andy-hughes with his constant refutation of verifiable facts is insisting, hypothetically, that Phil Collins was a member of the Beatles.
TWR - //Andy, do you honestly believe Integration IS working? I understand this is a minefield to discuss on here. //
It depends what you mean by 'integration'.
I live in a city with a large immigrant population from Europe, Asia and Africa. There is no evidence whatsoever of the tide of Muslims sweeping across the world laying waste to the infidel - quite the opposite, everyone seems to get along just fine.
My view is that we have the media that America has - it is fuelled and motivated by fear.
It takes the extremely large profile of a correspondingly relatively minute number of Muslim extremists, and parlays this into the notion that Islam wishes to take over the world. This ball is picked up and run with by people who search The Koran for passages to back up this nonsense, and they then bleat that Islam hates everyone who is not Islam and will work to destroy them.
The numbers prove that this is arrant nonsense. Al Qauida has been in existence since 1988 - if they are so keen on taking over the world, what's keeping them?
Human nature dictates that there are always some people who want to believe they, and only they, have a handle on the doom and gloom facing everyone.
You find it in the survivalists in the U.S. who stockpile food and weapons waiting for the black population to overwhelm them. You find it in doom mongers here who darkly predict the takeover of the UK by Muslim interlopers, and so on.
But in reality? None of this is actually happening! If Islam wanted to take over the West, it would have happened by now! The terrorists confirm their hatred of the West, and commit atrocities to publicise their view, but in proportion, how many are there, compared to Muslims who simply live their lives and get on with everyone.
My view is that integration, while it is never ever going to be an absorption of one culture by another - and that applies both ways incidentally - is largely continuing as it always has, and always will. The only thing that has changed is the obsessive need for a rampant and fear-crazed media to sew seeds of fear in the minds of its consumers.
Bird flu? Death of bees? Muslim takeover? All scare stories, all meaningless.
It depends what you mean by 'integration'.
I live in a city with a large immigrant population from Europe, Asia and Africa. There is no evidence whatsoever of the tide of Muslims sweeping across the world laying waste to the infidel - quite the opposite, everyone seems to get along just fine.
My view is that we have the media that America has - it is fuelled and motivated by fear.
It takes the extremely large profile of a correspondingly relatively minute number of Muslim extremists, and parlays this into the notion that Islam wishes to take over the world. This ball is picked up and run with by people who search The Koran for passages to back up this nonsense, and they then bleat that Islam hates everyone who is not Islam and will work to destroy them.
The numbers prove that this is arrant nonsense. Al Qauida has been in existence since 1988 - if they are so keen on taking over the world, what's keeping them?
Human nature dictates that there are always some people who want to believe they, and only they, have a handle on the doom and gloom facing everyone.
You find it in the survivalists in the U.S. who stockpile food and weapons waiting for the black population to overwhelm them. You find it in doom mongers here who darkly predict the takeover of the UK by Muslim interlopers, and so on.
But in reality? None of this is actually happening! If Islam wanted to take over the West, it would have happened by now! The terrorists confirm their hatred of the West, and commit atrocities to publicise their view, but in proportion, how many are there, compared to Muslims who simply live their lives and get on with everyone.
My view is that integration, while it is never ever going to be an absorption of one culture by another - and that applies both ways incidentally - is largely continuing as it always has, and always will. The only thing that has changed is the obsessive need for a rampant and fear-crazed media to sew seeds of fear in the minds of its consumers.
Bird flu? Death of bees? Muslim takeover? All scare stories, all meaningless.
When I was teaching we had a cross-section of staff. At Christmas children gave cards to all their teachers, the Hindu teacher thanked them for the cards and, if they asked, told them that while they didn't celebrate Christmas his children still expected presents! The Muslim teacher screamed at them and complained to the top brass. That to me demonstrates the difference.
THEMOTLEY1 - //The question was addressed to TWR not yourself AH, he may be a man of knowledge with more than just an opinion to offer. //
I am aware that the question was not addressed to me - that's why I didn't answer it.
I asked a different question - do you have a problem with me asking questions? After all, that is how we all learn, and since my knowledge levels seem to obsess some people on here, that can only be a good thing.
I am aware that the question was not addressed to me - that's why I didn't answer it.
I asked a different question - do you have a problem with me asking questions? After all, that is how we all learn, and since my knowledge levels seem to obsess some people on here, that can only be a good thing.
zebo - //When I was teaching we had a cross-section of staff. At Christmas children gave cards to all their teachers, the Hindu teacher thanked them for the cards and, if they asked, told them that while they didn't celebrate Christmas his children still expected presents! The Muslim teacher screamed at them and complained to the top brass. That to me demonstrates the difference. //
People can - and indeed do - find isolated incidents to illustrate any point you like - that is a mainstay of the media around the world.
But an isolated incident is exactly that - an isolated incident. It does not automatically offer evidence of proof that such behaviour is common around the world - indeed, quite the opposite is the case.
My wife was Deputy Head of an inner-city Catholic school with an average seventy per-cent Muslim intake. At Christmas, some children made Christmas cards and brought gifts, and some didn't, but non-one screamed at anybody.
Oh heck - here I am backing up my viewpoint with personal evidence!
Next, I'll be looking down on other people who are not married to people with experience of Muslim children ... except I won't.
People can - and indeed do - find isolated incidents to illustrate any point you like - that is a mainstay of the media around the world.
But an isolated incident is exactly that - an isolated incident. It does not automatically offer evidence of proof that such behaviour is common around the world - indeed, quite the opposite is the case.
My wife was Deputy Head of an inner-city Catholic school with an average seventy per-cent Muslim intake. At Christmas, some children made Christmas cards and brought gifts, and some didn't, but non-one screamed at anybody.
Oh heck - here I am backing up my viewpoint with personal evidence!
Next, I'll be looking down on other people who are not married to people with experience of Muslim children ... except I won't.
THEMOTLEY1 - //Just expressing my preference to have the opinion of someone who may be knowledgable as opposed to the opinion of someone who admits they are not. //
No issue there - in that case, you can save yourself the trouble of reading any of my posts, and save yourself even more time by not replying to them.
Does that work for you?
No issue there - in that case, you can save yourself the trouble of reading any of my posts, and save yourself even more time by not replying to them.
Does that work for you?
D.D. Mentioned Integration, can you remember folks,
The Robinson's Jam Gollywo---, Banned/ stopped to please.
When at school it was called Blackboard / Easel, Renamed to please.
Christmas Carols Etc, Christmas, Renamed to Please.
I know a Coloured Person that prefered to be called a Coloured Person, I now have to address him as a Black Person.changed to please.
Can you remember Folks, has integration worked or is it working? we had a church in our Town with a Cross on the roof, it became a Mosque, the muslims stated the Cross would not be removed! has it / Changed to please.
Would you say integration is working? Yes it is, one way.
The Robinson's Jam Gollywo---, Banned/ stopped to please.
When at school it was called Blackboard / Easel, Renamed to please.
Christmas Carols Etc, Christmas, Renamed to Please.
I know a Coloured Person that prefered to be called a Coloured Person, I now have to address him as a Black Person.changed to please.
Can you remember Folks, has integration worked or is it working? we had a church in our Town with a Cross on the roof, it became a Mosque, the muslims stated the Cross would not be removed! has it / Changed to please.
Would you say integration is working? Yes it is, one way.
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