Windrush

[Theland]

I have been outspoken about the undermining of our British culture, but I am thoroughly ashamed of this country for it betrayel of the Windrush generation, good loyal hard working citizens. Totally shameful. The name of the petty bureaucrats who made the discriminatory decisions should be published.
And this against the backdrop of mass Muslim immigration.
Talk about salt in wounds. Terrible.

[Old_Geezer]

I think there is a lot of ranting going on about this that is unjustified. It's a bad situation for sure. The government at the time didn't keep records it should have known were important. The immigrants failed to ensure they had paperwork to cover their, and their kids, situation.

People in government/civil service failed to spot the importance and potential issues for the whole period since then. And those in government/social services/etc. didn't seem to catch on there was an issue for much longer than they ought but believed everyone without documented evidence was clearly an illegal immigrant. Probably a further system failure.

But none of it it malicious nor particularly failure to do the job, it was all a genuine flaw that emerged over time and that no one spotted for ages. The problem has been identified, admitted to, and steps are being taken to correct. No one is perfect, unfortunate things do occur. Let's just stop yelling about how awful this person and that person and everyone is, get it fixed, and move on.

[Zacs-Master]

Windrush is a prime example of how we absorb people from other countries who add a little bit of their culture to ours.
I’m hoping it is the downfall of Theresa May after claims that she said ‘deport first, deal with the claims later’.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-mays-deport-first-appeal-later-immigration-boasts-blamed-for-windrush-scandal_uk_5ad9db37e4b029ebe0234b85

[dance2trance]

You should go on the internet and complain.

[fiction-factory]

I pretty much agree with O_G on this. I think for Theland to conflate this with mass Muslim immigration is wrong in that Muslims for whom there were no records showing entitlement would also be deported. The difference is better records are kept now and people are more aaware of teh need to keep records - eg to show to landlords and employes that have a right to be here,
Governments of either side can't win on the topic of immigration- either they are too soft (allowing mass Muslim immigration) or too hard (seeking to deport a few dozen people who have kept no records).

[naomi24]

Windrush is yet another example of a complete absence of plain common sense within the Civil Service. Crazy!

[Zacs-Master]

I thought the civil service was where public school educated people ended up to keep them out of proper jobs, where they would be a danger to themselves and others.

[dannyk13]

When the rules were tightened in an effort to stop illegal immigration it was not envisaged that the Windrush generation would be affected.It is very unfortunate ,but I do think that it down to an oversight and unintended.

[Zacs-Master]

Even with Mrs May’s 2013 comment, Danny?

[naomi24]

Zacs, //I thought the civil service was where public school educated people ended up to keep them out of proper jobs//

You did? How strange.

[Zacs-Master]

Ah well.

[Togo]

Nothing to do with common sense I feel Naomi. More likely deliberate attention to detail, only when it will cause embarrassment, and a complete lack of attention when that does the same. We never seem to send the Pakistani citizens who have no right to be here home do we?

[jno]

the civil service did what the government wanted them to do, as is their job. May wanted illegal immigrants thrown out. Rudd wanted even more thrown out. Their strategy failed to distinguish between legal and illegal, but they thought it didn't matter. Unexpectedly, the public thought it did matter, and they've been frantically U-turning ever since.

New Labour were always being criticised for running all their policies through focus groups before doing anything. May's incessant U-turning is evidence of what happens when you have no idea what the public think and don't try to find out.

[dannyk13]

ZM, I am talking about the time that the rules were changed,

[fiction-factory]

I think attempts to clamp down and look to deport a handful of people here and there is not going to make any significant difference but I can see that politicians like to make sound bites that make them sound tough.
It would be interesting to see what the figures are by group for immigration now -I doubt the government keeps records by religion though so we may not know what the figures are for 'mass Muslim immigration' , but I think the perception of mass Muslim immigration is because of bigger immigration figures from 'Muslimish' countries in the 1980s/90s and the much higher birthrates in these 'communities'. I'm not quite sure though how the changes have happened- the area where I live has gone from being 95% white 25 years ago to maybe only 70% white and in the local schools white children are in the minority. I think the pattern is pretty much set now and stopping all immigration would make little difference to what's happening

[Zacs-Master]

TM changed the rules in 2014 when she was Home Secretary, danny.

[Peter Pedant]

// I thought the civil service was where public school educated people ended up to keep them out of proper jobs,//

no that was George Orwell - on colonial officers in Burma. He should know - he was one and not that goo...
OK he was a better author than a colonial officer - he wasnt much good as a "plongeur" either was he ( Down and out in Paree)

Now boys and gurlz - an early lesson...
GDPR (*) which is kinda like a euro-Data protection Act says that data should be used for the purpose for which it is gathered - and that is kinda scientific on an AB level. If you collect data without a target it kinda goes mouldy very quickly - ie known to be very inaccurate at the start.

Windrush data was entry information - not proof of residence and was not collected as such. And so we can say if we are gonna use it as such - we will have to be careful.

Hey I went to France once ( 1968 ) and so there will be an entry form ( see Day of the Jackal - there is one evry day ) so does that mean I have been resident in France all dis time?
no it doesnt
the data shows that I entered La belle Republic June 1964

and no I dont expedctg anyone to say - hey that analysis gets up and runs ....

PS all the educated Jamaicans made sure they kept up with the many Immigration Acts ( starting 1962) - there werent many Acts that GAVE rights, they usually preserved rights grudgingly

[naomi24]

jno, you say that Civil Servants did what the government wanted them to do, but they didn’t. As you say rightly, the Civil Service failed to distinguish between legal and illegal – and that most definitely isn’t what the government wanted them to do.

[Peter Pedant]

O god I dont believe this
day after day - we have AB ers squawking about immigration - AOG on the Notting Hill carnival - west Indian music (boogey-woogey more like) thrust down his throat - and more !

and then windrush - and there is a rush of windy - oh if they are lavatory cleaners then they can stay !

[fiction-factory]

So far we've heard about how this has affected some of the (seemingly much loved) Windrush immigrants rather than Pakistanis and other Muslims mass immigrants who some here may feel never have their status challenged. I'm wondering though whether other groups- eg the Ugandan Asians who came here in the 1970s- will also be affected; and if so where they will lie on the 'welcome to stay' scale between the lovely hardworking windrushes at one end and the current Muslims at the other extreme?

[Togo]

P P in his own convoluted way actually does identify the issue, if you can cut through the false trails. We are now going to "reward" the less than alert Caribbean migrants with compen say shun....How very Lib/Lab.

//Windrush data was entry information - not proof of residence and was not collected as such. //

//PS all the educated Jamaicans made sure they kept up with the many Immigration Acts ( starting 1962) - there werent many Acts that GAVE rights, they usually preserved rights grudgingly//