Public Schools.

[Theland]

What makes Public Schools so successful, that they provide the movers and shakers of our society?
What is the secret?
What is the difference between, say, a geography lesson in Eton, and a geography lesson in Bash Street Comprehensive?
I never understand the garble from educational, "experts," when they appear on T.V.

[spathiphyllum]

I think public schools are a lot more down to earth with reality. Public schools contain a wide variate of character where as private schools are more set in their traditions and ways. I think public schools allow pupils to express themselves a bit more also with out the worry of shame being bought to the family honour. They're just a bit more real and gritty aint they?

Lesson wise will be similar but it's the character development you get in a public school which more private schools can't offer.

[kvalidir]

...and the Old Boy Network as well x

[Theland]

I should have said, Public, (as in Eton College), or State as in Bash street. Public / Private is confusing.

[hc4361]

Public schools have a stringent selection process and are quick to expel 'unsuitable' students.
They give their students a sense of worth that builds confidence and a 'can do' attitude.
The students' parents are generally successful and driven and instil this ethos in to their children.
The public schools employ the best staff, from teachers to management.

[Prudie]

For the purpose of this question public and private mean the same thing (Spath for the record). Yes Theland you mean private opposed to state.
I should imagine the lessons are very similar although private education may attract a better teacher. The difference is the motivation of the pupils and the motivation of the family support they get. Class disruption and discipline problems are vastly less in a private school - enabling the teacher and class to develop more deeply and cover topics outside of the standard curriculum - including character development.

And before the teachers clamour (and I was one in a state low ability comprehensive) by better teacher I mean that literally - someone who can impart knowledge and not someone who can control a class.

[DTCwordfan]

and the discipline is better - the students are coached and nourished - and the teaching is more intense and better (largely so but not in all cases). Top grammar schools fall into the PS category as well.

[Buenchico]

Spath seems to be taking 'public schools' to mean publicly-funded schools (which is what 'public schools' means in the USA) whereas Theland's post appears to be referring to the most elite independent schools, which are members of the Headmasters' Conference (such as Eton, Harrow, etc). In this country having 'a public school education' means having attended Eton, Harrow, Rugby, Charterhouse, Winchester College, etc.

Those schools tend to succeed because
(a) they're selective (i.e. pupils need to pass an entrance examination to get in, thus weeding out the weaker pupils) ;
(b) they've got more money to spend (e.g. pupils are far more likely to be offered rowing at Charterhouse than at most comprehensive schools) ;
(c) the parents of the pupils - or the nannies they employ - will have started formally educating their children almost from birth, rather than leaving it all to teachers later on ;
(d) the majority of public schools are boarding schools, meaning that pupils can have academic work thrown at them from early in the morning until bedtime ;
(e) public schools, like most independent schools, generally have parents who'll support the schools in their aims (particularly as they're paying tens of thousands of pounds to send their children to those schools) whereas some schools in the state sector have plenty of parents who'll tell their children not to do homework and who'll threaten to beat up teachers who try to insist that it's done ;
(f) children whose parents are paying mega-bucks for their offspring to attend a particular school are likely to have "education is important" drilled into them from the earliest age, whereas parents of pupils in state-run schools are far more likely to condone absence. (It can be hard for even the best pupils to learn in a classroom where the teacher has to devote a large part of his/her time to instructing other pupils who weren't present when key elements of the course were being covered) ;
(g) schools with more money can have smaller class sizes, making it easier for teachers to devote the necessary time to individual pupils ;
(h) pupils at public schools tend to have higher aspirations than many pupils in state-run schools (i.e. pupils in public schools expect to go to university whereas many equally able pupils living on 'sink estates' aren't encouraged to think beyond leaving school at the earliest opportunity); and
(i) there are still far too many employers (particularly in the City) who regard a public school education as automatically being better than a comprehensive school one, and who similarly regard an Oxbridge degree as automatically better than one from the University of East London, and who therefore open up career opportunities only to a privileged elite.

[ichkeria]

A lot of it is simply that the fact you have been to a public/private school makes you more likely to be a mover and/or a shaker

[DTCwordfan]

lesson time is longer - where I was 9 to 1.30, 4 to 6.30 M/W/F and 9 to 1,30 om T/T and Saturdays....preps from 7.30 to 9pm and 9,15 to 9.45 on 5 nights, 8.45 to 9.45pm on weekends and prefects allowed to work longer on all nights.

[retrocop]

Probably because Mum and Dad have invested a lot of money in getting the best education for their children.Probably because their children know that if they behave like scummy,disruptive influences and get expelled then they will learn about discipline the school can't administer.
Probably because they accept foreign students who have the motivation to learn,speak and understand English on admission thus wasting valuable tuition time with translators etc
Probably because the children are taught that you have to work hard to achieve success.
Probably because they don't have a feeling of right of entitlement and the state will provide for their indolence.
Probably I could go on for ages but I won't. :-)

[retrocop]

I think Chris beat me to it more or less. Quicker typist :-)

[woofgang]

One of the things that seems to get thrown up time and time again is that pupils in our public aka fee paying schools are taught to be confident and articulate. Now it may be that its much easier to be confident and articulate when the parents are worth a bob or two.....

[DTCwordfan]

some of us didn't go on foreign holidays or the likes, so it's not all about wealth, this was a parental choice in sending their kids to a public school. I also managed a bursary for art and that helped.

[Theland]

So discipline is just one of the elephants in the room.

[pastafreak]

As DT says, its not about wealth. We were an ordinary middle class family who wanted our daughter to get a good education. While she did well at our village school, some teachers "didn't know what to do" with her. She was easily distracted though clever. Someone recommended a small independent school with individual attention. It was there that they took the time to work one-on-one with her, and we learned she was mildly dyslexic. She blossomed there. She then continued to an all girls school. Good discipline...and homework! I'm a strong believer in that as it reinforces the days learning. Particularly in children who may be taking in loads of other interesting 'stuff' during lessons. It was paid for, in part, with money my mother left me. A very good investment.

[AuntLydia]

Private schools encourage good behaviour and instil confidence into pupils. They teach pupils to interact with everyone, yes everyone, and be polite to everyone.

Not everyone at most private school is from landed gentry or particularly rich. Dropping my son off at his school, which is quite well known but more for its sport than academia, many parents are driving older cars. The bentley's and rollers are non existent.
Bad behaviour is not tolerated, good behaviour expected. Most private schools have day pupils so the remark about only boarding is not true. Only about 65% of my sons school is boarding and only around 35% of the 6th form.
Most private schools follow the same exam board curriculum as state schools but as there is a better pupil:teacher ratio probably they do get to do that bit extra that helps them in exams. Also my son starts school at 8.45 and finishes at 5pm Mon-Friday and 8.45am -12 pm saturday. They have lots of chances for free study at school and fantastic facilities to do so.

They have a varied social calendar ( yes there are girls at his school) where they have formals and have to dress in Dj's. They are tutored in how to make themselves the best they can and how to project themselves at interviews.

Mainly its attitude to work and parental support and many children who have this and go to state schools do very well .

[retrocop]

//So discipline is just one of the elephants in the room.//
I believe,certainly,along with self discipline. Discipline is not just about detentions and corporal punishment.
Listen young Jeremy minor. I am investing a lot of my fortune in your education and further education at a good university worthy of your endeavours. If not. You will not inherit the Farter Pen company and our family estate.
Might focus the mind of a child to strive to do well. :-)

[THECORBYLOON]

Might be better to speak about state-funded and fee-paying schools to avoid any confusion.

[Theland]

It's sad. My daughter has six children, thinks education is very important, wants best for her kids.
But she is disabled but holds down a low pay job, her husband works two jobs, one full time one part time.
Never time to spend what is needed with her kids, homework etc and no money for tutors etc. So sad.

[woofgang]

I don't think its so much about discipline per se. I wouldn't call my dogs disciplined and I certainly have never disciplined them but the come when called, don't argue, are clean in the house and so on. I think that routine and expectation coupled with praise do more.