Transgenders On Newsnight.

[Theland]

Totally disgusted that transgenders can self identify and then walk into a ladies toilet, changing room or other female safe spaces.
What a cheek. What a disgrace. I am disgusted with them.

[jim360]

Well it's the intersection of both that's in dispute, then. If we agree to rename toilets according to equipment then, well, fair enough. But I strongly suspect such an agreement is some way off.

[pixie374]

There is no intersect between male and female though. Although I doubt anyone would complain about a third type of facility if they were provided.

[SparklyKid]

There is no "real" difference between gender and sex. Just a silly argument made up by the right on brigade.

Just look on the vast majority of forms from almost anywhere. There will be a box titled "gender". There will be two options, male or female. I hope I will still not be here when there is a choice of dozens.

[naomi24]

^I was just about to say that.

[naomi24]

^That to Pixie.

[jim360]

Intersection of "definition of woman" and "definition of women's toilet", I mean.

I've explained why you're wrong several times before, Sparkly -- heck, even pixie, which, as you'll see, disagrees with me about these issues, recognises that sex and gender are distinct.

[AuntLydia]

There are already mixed sex hospital wards. Female healthcare workers help both male and female patients and visa versa.
Ellipsis post is excellent. The architecture of our lives needs to change to reflect changes in society.
Changing rooms are going to be a problem but maybe just getting rid of these horrendous open changing rooms that often same sex people hate to undress in would be sufficient.

[pixie374]

People are confusing them, SK. That is the problem.

[jim360]

Yes, indeed, I thought Ellipsis' post was pretty reasonable.

[SparklyKid]

I am only wrong in the eyes of those who acquiesce to such silly notions that we can be what we want to be.

A few more prison assaults might wake some people up.

[spathiphyllum]

I do believe people can be born the wrong gender, for example someone feeling 100% woman but being a man, but in my opinion that's a personality disorder, not a new breed of gender/sex whatever

[jim360]

I mean, I also pointed out that you were wrong in the eyes of, say, India (where third genders are recognised and always have been), as well as many Native American Tribes. It's very much a Western -- in particular, an Abrahamic -- tradition to think that gender and sex must be exactly the same, with no exceptions.

[AuntLydia]

How can a man know what it feels like to be a woman? How can they feel 100% 'woman'. They can only empathise with certain stereotypical feminine traits.
I could curl and dye my hair black, go over the top with the fake bake and Self Identify as black, I could say I've always 'felt black'..Trouble is you can only feel black if you are black, anything else is just feeling how you think you should feel if you were black. Same thing with gender.

[SparklyKid]

I believe gender and sex mean exactly the same thing. I have filled countless forms in where male or female are the only options to choose from under the heading "gender". I could not give a fig about silly notions the other side of the world.

[SparklyKid]

If ( a big if) sex and gender are different, how do you know what gender you are, how many genders are there to choose from, can it change from day to day. You can see how silly it all becomes.

[jim360]

How does anyone know what they are? Some knowledge is innate, and is just a part of who you are.

The point of mentioning "silly notions on the other side of the world" is that it illustrates how different societies can be. It's worth giving consideration to, at least. Gender is tied far closer to societal attitudes than you are giving it credit for.

[SparklyKid]

The point of mentioning "silly notions on the other side of the world" is that it illustrates how different societies can be. It's worth giving consideration to, at least. Gender is tied far closer to societal attitudes than you are giving it credit for.

No ,sorry. Male is male female is female. The word gender has been hijacked for pc reasons. Go to a pet shop to buy a puppy, you will ask what sex is it not what gender.

[SparklyKid]

I have just watched that newsnight prog. The young bloke Brett Lee, I think, overweight, long hair and glasses said " I am a woman, get over it"

Okay pal, have normal sex, ( with a bloke with meat and two veg) get pregnant, give birth and breastfeed. You are then entitled to say you are a woman,

[Cloverjo]

Sparkly, why any do women (cis or trans) have to do all those things before they're entitled to call themselves such?

[SparklyKid]

They can call themselves anything they want but women they certainly are not.