Serena Williams Could Beat The Men........right Oh!

[ToraToraTora]

[ToraToraTora]

ZM: "Oh, OK, Tora. He’ll probably be along anyway yapping and a-snapping. He generally does like to join in your threads. " - Well he's not alone is he? I have many followers, most are welcome.

[ClareTG0ld]

// You know as well as everyone else knows, the answer to 'Can a female have a penis?' is 'No'. //

One thing I was curious about was why you've switched from "can a woman have a penis", which is the usual formulation and one I'm sure you've used before, to "can a *female* have a penis"? Are these different questions?

[Zacs-Master]

We prefer ‘disciples’, Tora ;-)

[ToraToraTora]

Right oh Zacs, I'm the messiah!

[ClareTG0ld]

You're not the messiah, you're a very naughty boy...

[Zacs-Master]

Nope, you’re a very naughty boy!

(You walked into that one!).

[ClareTG0ld]

Far too slow Zacs :P

[naomi24]

It's the same question. Sneaky Mr Starmer's latest deliberations reminded me that people have a habit of playing with words when it suits their agenda, and therefore it warranted rephrasing.

[ToraToraTora]

09:57 I wondered who would get in first!

[ClareTG0ld]

Hmm, ok.

Well, I see it as a subtly different question, because "man/woman" can have a social or legal meaning, whereas "male/female" are more connected to biology.

In any case, I don't think that everyone agrees that the answer is "no"; not least, if they did, then the question would be completely uninteresting.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, //"man/woman" can have a social or legal meaning, whereas "male/female" are more connected to biology. //

It's all biology - and you feign disinterest because you refuse to acknowledge that.

[ClareTG0ld]

// It's all biology - and you feign disinterest because you refuse to acknowledge that. //

We are more than just walking hunks of flesh. So, no, it's not all biology.

[naomi24]

Yes ... it is. Anyone may imagine anything they like - but imagination doesn't make it so.

[ClareTG0ld]

Well, look, you're welcome to define your entire identity and existence by your genitalia, but others are equally welcome not to.

[ToraToraTora]

good point are there other members of the animal kingdom in the "wrong body"?

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, you may define yourself as anything you like - I really don't give a hoot - but don't demand - or even expect - the rest of the world to indulge you.

[ClareTG0ld]

// good point are there other members of the animal kingdom in the "wrong body"? //

Dunno, I don't think we've ever asked.

There's a lot of surprising variety in the animal kingdom when it comes to sex, though -- certain fish species changing sex as and when it's needed, or others engaging in what could appear to be same-sex relationships, as two examples. Neither of these strictly relates to what we'd call being transgender, though.

[ClareTG0ld]

// ... don't demand - or even expect - the rest of the world to indulge you. //

A lot, again, depends on what you mean by "indulge" here, though. A request for basic respect, for freedom from discrimination, for freedom of self-expression: none of these is unreasonable, nor are they requests to be "indulged".

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, No one is stopping you - but by the same token no one should be stopping me.

[Untitled]

but you obviously do give a hoot. whenever the subject comes up the first priority is always "no they're not no they're not no they're not". you also said that you wish people would stop doing it.

this is why this topic is so difficult to discuss properly... there is a thinly veiled subtext of unrelenting hostility and intolerance toward even the very idea of being trans and a conviction that their nature must be denied