Serena Williams Could Beat The Men........right Oh!

[ToraToraTora]

[William51]

There is no arguing with Elle Robinson, she is fixated with her views and we must just listen and humour her.

[Untitled]

“ I'll thank to refrain from inferring I'm lying and I'll thank you to resist your usual urge to launch unfounded personal attacks. ”

this is rubbish naomi. you said you wanted “all this” to stop and clarified by saying “men are men and women are women”… it is quite obvious that the “all this” you want to stop is people identifying with a gender other than the one assigned at birth. there is no other reasonable way to read your post. stop backpedaling and own it.

[andy-hughes]

Clare - If as you say you have been on here for ten years, you should be aware of most people's views on this subject.

The constant default position of assuming 'victim' status, coupled with the assumption that anyone who does not absolutely 'support' trans people must be a bigot, is a large reason why hostility exists.

It is the trans lobby who assume that the moral high ground is theirs simply because they are a minority.

It is not, and the sooner they stop demanding unreasonable changes that affect the majority negatively, the sooner the understanding theu crave will start to appear.

[naomi24]

Untitled, I've asked you to have the courtesy to stop. What I say and what you deliberately read into it are two very different things.

//some intersex conditions result in it happening and it may also describe some trans women //

//May also describe some trans women//

It follows then that the rest cannot justifiably describe themselves as 'female'.

[Untitled]

actually it follows that some trans women don’t have penises

[naomi24]

But the rest do... making them ... men.

[ClareTG0ld]

// Clare - If as you say you have been on here for ten years, you should be aware of most people's views on this subject. //

Indeed so. But, at a minimum, how we evaluate other people's views is somewhat subjective -- obviously this applies to me too, but in this case it's relevant to your own judgement of whether TTT's views count as transphobic, which amounted at best to one or both of "it's not transphobic because I agree with it", and "it's not transphobic because it's reasonable", both of which beg the question.

The same in the rest of your latest: the influence of the "trans lobby" in modern politics is anyway exaggerated, but even setting that aside it's hardly a monolith, and many if not most of the changes that trans people request (nb, not "demand") hardly count as unreasonable by most measures: freedom from discrimination, and freedom of self-expression, are basic rights.

[Untitled]

i’m sorry naomi but my courtesy does not extend to ignoring bigotry. you might want to have a bit of a think about why you come across this way… because you point out that you have a trans relative and yet your first response whenever this issue comes up is to insist that you do not consider trans women to be women to be women and that you want “all this nonsense” to “stop”. i do hope that your relative does not get this treatment for the sake of their wellbeing.

[naomi24]

Untitled, //whenever this issue comes up is to insist that you do not consider trans women to be women //

That's because I don't and that's because they're not. If you want honesty, that's an example of it. You can't have it both ways.

ClareTG0ld. Are you ignoring my question again?

[bazwillrun]

"you do not consider trans women to be women'

they arent...unless their chromosomes show otherwise..

[ClareTG0ld]

// ClareTG0ld. Are you ignoring my question again? //

In short: you already know the answer, you already know how I'd answer, and I don't think it's even a particularly important question.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "this thread is about an inconsequential youtube clip... it is little more than a thinly veiled pretext for having a pop at trans people.... and many posters have taken the opportunity with relish. not your finest hour toratoratora. " - Perlease as AH has pointed out at 19:17 my beef is with the way they are being thrust on society and how we are supposed to wear it. If people want to transition, fine but don't do it so you can compete in sports that you couldn't as a man, don't do it to get sent to a women's nick etc. Above all get on with it quietly and don't use it as a weapon to seek attention and offend the masses. Don't blow it all out of proportion, remember you are a tiny minority.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, courage in your convictions appears to be sadly lacking.

[William51]

That was a good read and a sensible post Tora.

[ToraToraTora]

DD, 07:48, bang on.

[ToraToraTora]

AH 19:17 thanks for that.

[ToraToraTora]

All this cobras about knobs and wombs etc is entirely redundant. We should be asking: "Can a woman have a Y chromosome?".

[ClareTG0ld]

// ClareTG0ld, courage in your convictions appears to be sadly lacking. //

Lol, sure. No, it's just because it's a question that's frankly overtaken the discourse and I think it's reductive and pointless. Who cares? Unless I'm planning to have sex with someone, what's inside their pants doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

[andy-hughes]

Clare - // and many if not most of the changes that trans people request (nb, not "demand") hardly count as unreasonable by most measures: freedom from discrimination, and freedom of self-expression, are basic rights. //

They are - and no-one would deny that.

But how do you see 'freedom of self-expression' as against the disruption of an entire primary school on the whims of one child, as I pointed out - a situation which is duplicated right across the education system of this country.

'Freedom of expression' does not entitle one family to disrupt an entire school for their own attention-seeking ends.

[Zacs-Master]

‘ the way they are being thrust on society ’
Are they though? I watch the news, I’m on Twitter, Insta, Facebook and the main place I hear about transgender people is on here.