Big Bang/ god question.

[denzil45]

Was it the big bang or was it god? Im not trying to be funny, i only want to know.

[dawkins]

Technically if one believed in a god that created the universe then that god would be free to start the universe off in any way she liked including a big bang. You would also have to explain how this god came into existence but you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence to back you up.

If you prefer a scientific explanation then you can consider the evidence for and against the big bang theory and come to a rational decision all the while knowing that you can't have complete knowledge

[robbo82]

42

[Clanad]

Why dawkins would you think a "god" capable of producing the universe, through a "Big Bang" or otherwise, would have to have a beginning and "came into existence". Not wishing to engage in a long debate, I often wonder why one would think that a "creator" of such magnitude would, itself, have to have been created... unique concept...

Both the generally accepted, current theory of the Big Bang origin, (which I happen to agree with) and the Biblical description of the event have enough parallels to make them compatible, in my view... one tells, primarily, how and one tells somewhat, how but adds why and neither disagrees with the other... in my opinion...

[dawkins]

Well, Clanad. following the ID argument, the universe and everything in it is too complex to have evolved from its origin in the big bang to the complex situation we have today. In fact, ID argues that there must be an intelligent designer, a god if you will, who intervened. this designer must be very complex indeed to make such a good job of it, too complex to have evolved, he must have been designed.

Have a good weekend mate, I'm off home now.

[mibn2cweus]

Where would god learn to do all these fancy tricks without a universe in which to be conceived, grow and explore. Consciousness, knowledge and the ability to purposefully create all presuppose a living, evolved physical entity and a physical domain to alter. Is it possible that god did all of this magically or far more likely that someone created god from out of our their imagination and a failure (or refusal) to grasp the cause and effect relationship that pervades reality.

[Clanad]

As usual, mibn2cweus, were speaking in two incompatible languages. But, if you can, just for a moment, consider that, if there was an entitiy that could create the universe and especially time since time began at the Big Bang, then is not probable that the entity is totally outside of time and the creation? In other words, the immutable physical laws do not govern the entity since it created them. Therefore, no previous existence for that entity in required. That entity has always been... even that phrase doesn't do justice to the idea of such a Creator, since the adjective always implies the concept of previous time, which does't exist for that Creator. Most people's thinking is way to small and confined when considering the possibility of a Creator.
The only conclusion one can reach is that the universe created itself, man created the universe or a Creator created the universe... somehow, I don't think the first two have any validity but, in any case neither of the three are totally provable.
A group of scientists approach God and, shaking their fists state "We don't need you, we've found the secret of life and can create man out of dirt just like you did"... God replies, "OK, show me." One scientist reaches down to pick up a handful of dirt... God says "Hold it!... get your own dirt"...

[Lonnie]

I can go along with God creating everything, when you look at how absolutely everything fits, but the one question I would like answered, is, how long, in our measurement of time, would God have been there, <b.before he decided to create us.

[lankeela]

What about the religions/cultures that don't believe in a 'god' as perceived in this thread? Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? And has anyone ever had any proof that any god exists?

[mibn2cweus]

Whenever an attempt is made to explain anything with "God" you explain nothing . . . coincidence?

[Rev Sermon]

If the universe was created by a big bang then maybe a similar big bang created god.
What worries me is if it happened once it could happen again. Theroretically, if not likely, a whole new universe could just explode into existence under our very noses.

[mibn2cweus]

Rev Sermon, The likelihood of unpredictable cataclysm does not justify perseveration when it is inevitable that catastrophic events will take place that we should prepare for, some of which can be prevented entirely. If anything the precarious nature of existence is a blessing in that it gives us reason to find value in what time we have.

[Scots-babe]

personally i wuld love to know they answer but i cant think about these thigns - it hurts my brain. lol

[Tatty Rollox]

... there is a big bang here ....

[dawkins]

Clanad

You miss the possibility that the universe originated from a blackhole through cosmological evolution.

[Clanad]

dawkins, if there was or could be any proof of that possibility it would be quite interesting. I see Hawkings has re-thought his use of imaginary numbers to achieve the possibility. Problem is, if you think it through, the most perplexing question is How and Why (OK two most perplexing questions). Simply pushing it back to a preexisting universe answers neither of these, does it?

[Stevee]

But we know that Blackholes exist therefore Dawkins theory is much more substatial than your God theory.

[Clanad]

Care to expound on that just a bit Stevee?

[dawkins]

I agree that there is no proof . I think the how and why would be explained quite well though. The how: through a black hole creating a new region in spacetime and the why: Because universes which are good at producing black holes tend to create daughter universes much like our own. So I am not sure that it pushes the problem somewhere else. I think if evidence could be found that big bangs are a result of blackholes then it would improve our understanding of the cosmos. It would certainly explain the origin of our universe.

[Clanad]

dawkins, you are usually concise and well supported by current scientific theory, but, surely you are aware that you suppostion is pure speculation and has only the wildest of, how shall I say, science fiction for a basis. No reputable astro-physicist I'm aware of proposes your thesis. In fact, Hawking in 2003 revised his beliefs about black holes after maintaining them, for nearly 30 years. Here: http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040712/full/04 0712-12.html ) and ( http://ask.yahoo.com/20040810.html )
By "pushing it back" I simply mean... how does that solve any problem of origins? It's akin to the belief some hold of Panspermia as being the origin of life on Earth. If the universe came from another universe, where did that one come from, ad infinitum (no pun intended).