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why don't atheists go doorknocking
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We are all well aware of the mindless capabilities of those who are publicly keen to meet their maker and enter some form of martyrdom, it happens every day in the world sadly. Are you advocating this? Whilst I cannot be sure of which way I am heading, I have been placed on this earth for a purpose and until such time as my purpose is served I shall remain in this world. At my pre-destined time of expiry, one would hope that I will be good and ready and accept the consequences of impending mortality.
Johnlambert, one should not call people who call for God�s guidance in the hour need of hypocrites. I know of many people who call out for God at certain times, in the bedroom (personal experience) and more recently in the labour wards of our local hospital. I doubt those women (whom I have known personally or were giving birth) were particularly religious. But I must admit, this question raises a certain smile on my face when I ponder the atheist with their leaflets of anti-God, anti-Christian and anti-Religion sentiments, hovering outside my bedroom door and the maternity delivery rooms anxious to espouse their message.
Johnlambert, one should not call people who call for God�s guidance in the hour need of hypocrites. I know of many people who call out for God at certain times, in the bedroom (personal experience) and more recently in the labour wards of our local hospital. I doubt those women (whom I have known personally or were giving birth) were particularly religious. But I must admit, this question raises a certain smile on my face when I ponder the atheist with their leaflets of anti-God, anti-Christian and anti-Religion sentiments, hovering outside my bedroom door and the maternity delivery rooms anxious to espouse their message.
Octavius, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I don't think anyone is advocating taking the path of the suicide bomber - or of committing suicide in any way.
My point is that I've known very few Christians who have welcomed the news that they have a terminal illness and are about to meet their maker(?) - and I've known few that have faced the end of their life without an element of fear. Therefore if Christians are so sure of their final destination, why don't they welcome death?
My point is that I've known very few Christians who have welcomed the news that they have a terminal illness and are about to meet their maker(?) - and I've known few that have faced the end of their life without an element of fear. Therefore if Christians are so sure of their final destination, why don't they welcome death?
Ah I get it. So because someone is a Christian, no matter what life throws at them, they should welcome the news of being diagnosed with a terminal illness?
I presume that atheists believe that life is just snuffed out and then there is nothing (?) Is this why they fear death? Or don�t they fear death at all and they welcome it? If they don�t fear death then can we assume that they would joyfully open their arms to welcome a slow agonising death from a natural debilitating illness? I don�t know any atheists who have welcomed the news of terminal illness, but I don�t understand that � what have they to fear?
I imagine that anyone who is diagnosed with a terminal illness will have an inherent fear of what is to come. Some accept it and live with it, some don't and wish for euthanasia.
I don�t think, as you seem to do, that either of these emotions have much to do with being a Christian. It is a strange argument that you raise in order to provoke the conservative Christians into debate.
I presume that atheists believe that life is just snuffed out and then there is nothing (?) Is this why they fear death? Or don�t they fear death at all and they welcome it? If they don�t fear death then can we assume that they would joyfully open their arms to welcome a slow agonising death from a natural debilitating illness? I don�t know any atheists who have welcomed the news of terminal illness, but I don�t understand that � what have they to fear?
I imagine that anyone who is diagnosed with a terminal illness will have an inherent fear of what is to come. Some accept it and live with it, some don't and wish for euthanasia.
I don�t think, as you seem to do, that either of these emotions have much to do with being a Christian. It is a strange argument that you raise in order to provoke the conservative Christians into debate.
No, Octavius, you've misunderstood. It was a genuine question. Obviously no one looks forward to pain and suffering - I'm not suggesting for one moment that they do - but I knew two people who were Christian and met the end of their lives quite calmly and happily - seriously. One of them even made her own funeral arrangements. I also have a friend who's a spiritualist, and who because of her beliefs genuinely looks forward to dying - she says she can't wait for the day to come - so I wondered why most Christians don't seem to feel the same despite their 'certain' knowledge of their final destination.
I don't know what atheists think. As you say, that life is just snuffed out I expect. Why don't you ask them?
Waldo, too much information methinks. :o)
I don't know what atheists think. As you say, that life is just snuffed out I expect. Why don't you ask them?
Waldo, too much information methinks. :o)
So now you have changed it to �most� Christians. My point remains that accepting death is a personal individual emotion, and whether you arrive at that point happily or look forward to it in anticipation or fear impending doom, it would seem to me to have very little to do with any religious beliefs for �most� people.
One would ask, if this friend is so looking forward to it, why is she waiting?
Are you asking me specifically if � as a Christian - I fear death? Or are you inferring that I should be in a rush to meet my maker as I am so certain that that is what will happen? If I said I was looking forward to death, but hoped it was later rather than sooner would that make everything alright?
One would ask, if this friend is so looking forward to it, why is she waiting?
Are you asking me specifically if � as a Christian - I fear death? Or are you inferring that I should be in a rush to meet my maker as I am so certain that that is what will happen? If I said I was looking forward to death, but hoped it was later rather than sooner would that make everything alright?
Good grief, Octavius, you are sooooo grumpy today. This wasn't intended to be an argument and I haven't been rude to you, but that chip on your shoulder is sticking out a mile. I won't answer your questions now because there's only hostility here at the moment and you're not understanding my posts. Perhaps we'll continue this another time. Have a good evening.
Naomi, I don�t think I misunderstood you at all. You have inferred � obviously ignoring the original Q and presenting anti-Christian statements as per R&S norm - that Christians should be happy to die because they believe they will go to heaven. But as you have said, don�t take to the news of being diagnosed with terminal illness very well at all. Hence they must be scared of dying wherein they shouldn�t because they believe in God and heaven. What have I misunderstood?
When you typify and admonish me with the statement that �I am Christian I should be happy to meet my maker� � doesn�t that give me the right to be a little peeved and to have a small chip on my shoulder, since you have assumed I wouldn't be? Are you scared to die, or do you look forward to it?
Oh dear bronion, answer the Q then. Go on, give an opinion from an atheists viewpoint (assuming you are one?). I double-dare ya.
When you typify and admonish me with the statement that �I am Christian I should be happy to meet my maker� � doesn�t that give me the right to be a little peeved and to have a small chip on my shoulder, since you have assumed I wouldn't be? Are you scared to die, or do you look forward to it?
Oh dear bronion, answer the Q then. Go on, give an opinion from an atheists viewpoint (assuming you are one?). I double-dare ya.
OK, this is an atheist speaking:
I find the prospect of death very unpleasant and would feel that way even if I were assured that I would die peacefully in my sleep. The very idea that I will one day disappear into black nothingness without any memory of the fact that I was previously a happy and fulfilled human being living on a beautiful planet is not nice. But, of course, once I am dead it won't matter because I'll have no mind left to think about such things. It's the prospect which displeases.
Most religions offer their faithful a life after death, which must be very comforting. They can go through their lives happy in the thought of an afterlife and never be disillusioned - because when their eyes close in death they will have consciousness left to realise that they had been wrong all their lives!
Tempting as it is to wallow in similar fashion I just cannot bring myself to believe sheer nonsense just for the sake of comfort. My loyalty to real-life reason and rationality is stronger than te temptation to be cosy.
I find the prospect of death very unpleasant and would feel that way even if I were assured that I would die peacefully in my sleep. The very idea that I will one day disappear into black nothingness without any memory of the fact that I was previously a happy and fulfilled human being living on a beautiful planet is not nice. But, of course, once I am dead it won't matter because I'll have no mind left to think about such things. It's the prospect which displeases.
Most religions offer their faithful a life after death, which must be very comforting. They can go through their lives happy in the thought of an afterlife and never be disillusioned - because when their eyes close in death they will have consciousness left to realise that they had been wrong all their lives!
Tempting as it is to wallow in similar fashion I just cannot bring myself to believe sheer nonsense just for the sake of comfort. My loyalty to real-life reason and rationality is stronger than te temptation to be cosy.
Well there you have it.
The prospect of death displeases you. As it does I.
The prospect of some form of afterlife is reassuring. Should that really make the prospect of dying more pleasing � or just less displeasing? Is this perhaps why naomi�s spiritualist friend looks forward to it? Does she have special knowledge of something neither of us are truly aware of??
Who is not to say that in your final hours you might realise you were wrong? You are just assuming based on my Christian beliefs that I am the one who is wrong. How so?
The prospect of death displeases you. As it does I.
The prospect of some form of afterlife is reassuring. Should that really make the prospect of dying more pleasing � or just less displeasing? Is this perhaps why naomi�s spiritualist friend looks forward to it? Does she have special knowledge of something neither of us are truly aware of??
Who is not to say that in your final hours you might realise you were wrong? You are just assuming based on my Christian beliefs that I am the one who is wrong. How so?
Octavius, No, I am not afraid to die.
I don't know if my friend has special knowledge, but because she is a spiritualist she has no doubt at all that a better life awaits her after death.
My question was in response to your post - and you did misunderstand my intention - but it seems you are quite determined to do that anyway.
I don't know if my friend has special knowledge, but because she is a spiritualist she has no doubt at all that a better life awaits her after death.
My question was in response to your post - and you did misunderstand my intention - but it seems you are quite determined to do that anyway.
To quote you�.
�My point is that I've known very few Christians who have welcomed the news that they have a terminal illness and are about to meet their maker(?) - and I've known few that have faced the end of their life without an element of fear. Therefore if Christians are so sure of their final destination, why don't they welcome death?�
Is this the question you mean? If so, I would appreciate your advice on how I can respond to you better.
�My point is that I've known very few Christians who have welcomed the news that they have a terminal illness and are about to meet their maker(?) - and I've known few that have faced the end of their life without an element of fear. Therefore if Christians are so sure of their final destination, why don't they welcome death?�
Is this the question you mean? If so, I would appreciate your advice on how I can respond to you better.
Your question, Octavius, reminds me of a correspondence I was having with a good-humoured RC priest. I gave him the above argument and, like you, he suggested that I might be the one who would have a pleasant surprise when I died and found that there was an afterlife.
I asked how he knew that my surprise would be pleasant, considering that neither he nor anyone else could tell me what that life would be like. Bearing in mind that I would have to endure that life for eternity, even the faintest vestige of boredom would surely become intolerable.
He said that, in all his years as a priest, he had often been asked about the afterlife but that this was the first time that anyone had tried to do a consumer survey on it!
I asked how he knew that my surprise would be pleasant, considering that neither he nor anyone else could tell me what that life would be like. Bearing in mind that I would have to endure that life for eternity, even the faintest vestige of boredom would surely become intolerable.
He said that, in all his years as a priest, he had often been asked about the afterlife but that this was the first time that anyone had tried to do a consumer survey on it!
naomi24, you strike me as a balanced rational person most of the time, having a proper disregard for religious beliefs and all that. But then you suddenly rock me back on my heels by saying things like 'I have a friend who is a spiritualist'.
What do you mean by that? Do you mean that she claims to be a spiritualist and you indulge her barminess because she is your friend? Or do you take her seriously? If so, why?
What do you mean by that? Do you mean that she claims to be a spiritualist and you indulge her barminess because she is your friend? Or do you take her seriously? If so, why?
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