Assisted suicide in Switerland - what's the point?

[flobadob]

There is apparently a documentary on tonight where a guy goes to Switzerland and pays �3000 for an assisted suicide. My question is, what is the point of going to Switzerland and paying out money when you could just overdose in your own house for a few quid?

[CJ242]

The clinic he is visiting is called Dignitas. The whole point is that he wants to die with his dignity intact. He knows his disease will leave him in agony and unable to do anything for himself (including controlling his bodily functions) An overdose at home is not guaranteed to work and is certainly not dignified. This clinic give you a hotel type suite and you can die peacefully in the arms of someone you love!!!

[Jafi]

I can understand why someone would want to go down that road.
But �3000 seems to be a lot of money.

Does this Dignitas clinic make any profit in this?

[SeaJayPea]

There was a court case here in October brought by a woman called Debbie Purdy who wants the right to die in a manner of her own choosing. She has MS and is unlikely to be able to travel anywhere without assistance or indeed take the necessary drugs.

She lost the case she brought in the High Court where she sought a judgement that would prevent her husband from being prosecuted for assisting a suicide. This is, apparently, still an offence here. You can get up to 14 years for it.

See this link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7697200.stm

So I guess the answer to your question is that by doing what he did, he was able to prevent his family being prosecuted here. Although some mean-minded people might suggest that just by helping him travel there they render themselves liable to prosecution.

My father died last year from Motor Neuron Disease, and it's not a nice thing at all. If he'd suggested doing something like this, I'd have done anything to help him. Including spending three grand, if that's what it cost.

I figure you can't know what you'd do until you're in the situation.

Dignitas is a charity registered in Switzerland and, as such, won't make a profit.

[CJ242]

SeaJayPea, you put it better than I ever could! I can't pretend to know how I would feel or act in this situation but I can understand why people would want to do it. You have my deepest sympathies for your loss. I must have been hard for you and your family. xx

[blueflame68]

theres nothing wrong with putting your self down,we do it to animals....

[123everton]

It is a bit more complicated than that, if you are very ill and every one around you tells you that you are a burden then you may decide you want to go, there's also the matter of property and inheritance.
I'm undecided about legalised suicide, I can see both sides of the coin plus I have the benefit of being in moderately rude health.
I always remember reading a letter written by a nurse during WW2 in it she recalled an American air man who'd been badly burnt in a crash landing, he was in a huge amount of pain and was'nt expected to live long, day after day she'd dose him with morphine and he'd cry out in agony most all of the time she said to to a Dr. that perhaps it'd be more humane to kill him, he agreed but said that they could'nt, the next day she went to his room and opened the curtains when she turned around he was looking at her and around the room she smiled and said "good morning."
The man looked around some more and said "sunshine, flowers, it's good to be alive" he died that afternoon.

[CJ242]

If you have a loving family. Noone would ever tell you that you were a burden, they would want to help you and comfort you through anything. If this is how you feel family members would see you if you were in this condition then I feel very sorry for you.

[Ice.Maiden]

I'm in two minds about assisted suicide. If the person in question is able to decide for him or her self, then if they're expecting a slow, painful death anyway, I can see the attraction in choosing a relatively easy way out. Problems arise if an ill person isn't rational, or they have no way of cummincating their wishes.
To answer your question flobadob, dying at the Didnitas Clinic is a lot different from someone trying to commit suicide on their own. Here, an overdose can be lingering and painful, and might not work, but might leave a person with severe liver damage for instance. Over there, the barbiturates are carefully measured, to guarantee it works.

[Ice.Maiden]

Excuse typos - rotten keyboard!

[jake-the-peg]

We desperately need a law to allow doctors to do this if just to protect them

Many people die in agony

You may die in agnoy

Why? because doctors are frightened that if they give you too much medication in your final hours you may die and they'll face an investigation or even prosecution.

For all our sakes this law needs to change.

Who is the victim of this crime?

[123everton]

CJ if you're referring to me then spare me your pity and read what I've said again, the question is a hypothesis and the answer's I have given suggest problems that can arise out of this hypothesis.
Many pensioners are put into homes and are'nt visited, many people have been killed in order to access an inheritance.

[DaisyMae]

I agree with 123 everton, not everyone is capable of making these decisions and it is a very short step from asking the state to make the decision for you to the state making the decision simply because they judge you to be so far gone theat you are a burden and would wish to go if given the chance. (do I get the prize for the longest unpunctuated sentence this week?)

It is imperative that we do nothing to shorten life unless we can be absolutely sure that there is consent.

[jake-the-peg]

No Daisy it's not a short step.

We already permit women to have abortions in many circumstances.

That same logic would be applied by those opposing terminations to say that it's a short step to the state insisting on terminations in some cases.

Do you see that happening?

No

That is simple fear tactics, if we followed that line we'd forbid all sorts of things for fear that the state could take over

[keyplus90]

My feelings about this are a bit different. First of all now a days we have so much sophistication in machinery and drugs that they can prolong your final hours into weeks or perhaps months. Where a person might have died, now is kept alive with breathing machines and so on, whatever you call them. Where I do appreciate advancement in medical science, I also believe that in this regard this has few question marks. In other words switching the machine off when nothing can be done is better than assisted suicide later on.

Secondly and most importantly, how you take illness, death and how do your relatives take it. Everton said the same thing, I have seen with my own eyes people who have all sorts of problems but still their relatives around them made them feel special and not a burden. I believe that disease, difficulties, hardships are there to test the sufferer as well as people around them and a chance given by God to repent. Sudden death does not give you time to think, whereas in this case you have opportunity to remember God, spend some time with your family.

I always say that not many people think about God in happiness and prosperity, but go and ask the people who are in difficulties and poverty and they will tell you what they are thinking about and they are usually more satisfied.

All these things depend on what you believe in. As I know majority here are atheists and for them these are fairy tales.

[jake-the-peg]

What does Islam have to say about suicide Keyplus?

(Leaving aside all the suidice bomber stuff)

I know it's a deeply divisive issue in Christianity esp. Catholicism where there have been deeply hurtfull incidents of priests refusing to bury suicides.

What is the Islamic view?

[DaisyMae]

Actually jake-the-peg I prefer to answer for myself. You asked - "Do you see that happening?" Well actually yes I do. It is a fact of life in this country at the moment that if you are over a certain age (80 in my experience) you get a much lower level of care under the NHS. I have experience of this at first hand. My husband is over 80 and is not given the same treatment that would have been the norm several years ago. I won't go into the details, but we are definitely second class citizens where the NHS is concerned.

[keyplus90]

Jake � Islam is completely against suicide. Because in Islam it is considered being disappointed from the blessings of God. Just put it like this, Are you the most worse or hard done person in the world, or could there be few more who might be worse than you are. Islam teaches to be optimistic and always look towards the one lower than you or in this regard worse than you.

Does not matter how sick the person is, we can only estimate that he or she would not survive. I have seen people where doctors and specialists refused to give any hop and still they survived. So suicide is disappointment from what God knows and we do not.

Then comes in Quran and God says in it that he never puts a burden on any human more than what he or she can bear.

Muhammad (pbuh) once said that any one who has their parents or one of them in old age and does not go to Paradise is the most unlucky one. It means that when you look after your parents when they need you then you should be able to do any thing like they did for you when you were a baby. They cleaned you, they dressed you up and so on.

[keyplus90]

Jake - I will give you yet another example, though not related to this directly. Just yesterday afternoon before I left the office where I work, my boss told me that I will not be needed after 31st Jan 2009 as there is not enough work. I think he was expecting me to be shocked and so on. Of course naturally you do get worried as I have a family to look after. But I told him not to worry as I know and have firm belief that sustenance and every thing else is from God, and if one door is closed then somewhere he has opened another better opportunity for me. All I have to do is to look for it sincerely. Just as when I lost my last job after 10 years then I found this one even better from no where. No disappointment, So I would be OK (Insha Allah).

[Octavius]

Jake, if the law was changed as you suggest, then how many more Harold Shipmans would be able to do as they so please without any recourse�?

[naomi24]

Then comes in Quran and God says in it that he never puts a burden on any human more than what he or she can bear.

I don't believe that for a moment. People are often burdened with more than they can bear. That's often why they have nervous breakdowns - and that's often why they choose assisted suicide.

For years doctors in this country have, in effect, been helping people to die. When a dying patient is lingering or suffering, a doctor will sometimes administer drugs in a dosage that he knows is just a little too high for the ailing patient's body to withstand. It's not assisted suicide as such, because, due to the law of the land, there can be no questions asked, and hence there is no agreement from the patent, but in my opinion it is an act of great compassion.

To answer the question, as someone has already said, it's much better to do the job under medical supervision, and as far as the cost goes - none of us can take it with us.