Zimbabwe

[LewPaper]

All that's required for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

[Sgt.Rock]

But didn't they fight for their independence. Perhaps we should leave them to it.

[danchip]

like i iraq where we tried to do something

[jake-the-peg]

And Maggy Thatcher sent Lord Carrington to sort it all out and achieve decent elections and proper Government.

Ah I see what you mean about good men doing nothing

[123everton]

If they want help then they should ask for it.
We can't just march in (invade) and start feeding everyone.
Every other African nation would view it with suspicion because that pretext would form a precednt could then be used to change their leadership.

[danchip]

the only way anything can be done by outsiders is to go in overthrow mugabe occupy the country with our troops and then try to rebuild infrastructures such as hospitals etc

sounds very similar to iraq/afghanistan which the majority of people like to have a good moan about

[jake-the-peg]

And it would be about as popular!

It's an African problem and needs an African solution. Probably a "South African" one.

Maybe we could help with equipment or financially but it needs African troops not European ones.

[LewPaper]

I take all these points and personally I'd like special forces to take him out, but we should be 'encouraging' those African nations who can that they should.

Oh, hang on, has Zimbabwe any oil reserves?

[123everton]

Lew you attract far more flies with honey than you ever will with vinegar.
If we really wanted Iraq's oil that badly then we'd have just traded openly with saddam again.
The liberalati at the time wanted just such an accomadation to be made because they were against the U.N imposed sanctions stating X amount of 1000s were dying as a result of them, Galloway even brought a leukaemia sufferer to Britain to emphasise the point.
For all the rights and wrongs of the Iraq war to gain control of it's oil was not I wager high amongst the priorities as it would have (did have) the immediate effect of lowering supply thus raising the price.

[LewPaper]

That's fair comment and perhaps my comment about the oil was a bit glib, taking away the point of what's going on in Zimbabwe, but I can see similarities and parallels between it and Germany in the mid thirties.

I can see the reasons for not barging in unilaterally but I think the UN could compose a peace-keeping force sensitive to African issues.

He has to be stopped somehow.

[danchip]

like i said the only way he can be stopped is by invasion or assasination of the countries who have the capabilities to do either none will want to get involved, the U.N could send a force in but would be met with resistence from mugabe's supporters and will turn into a war.

i know its awful to say but its a zimbabwean problem and the people of zimbabwe have to sort it out

[LewPaper]

Yes, you could be right there.

[terambulan]

Nelson Mandela would understand the mind-set of Africa best....and since he has laid low on Mugabe's practice we should respect Zimbabwe's independance and keep out.

It's the way they do it!

[jno]

123everton, the invasion of Iraq did lower supply - but that certainly wasn't the intention. Bush (a Texas oilman) thought he would win in two weeks, install a friendly regime in three, and be getting cheap oil from it in four. It didn't work, and I don't think it's going to; but I reckon oil was one of the top reasons for the invasion.

And that's another reason for not sorting out Mugabe: we don't know that it will work, and we haven't got anything better to put in his place.

[Teddio]

The average Rhodesian was much better off under the rule of Ian Smith (an African). Unfortunately his policies led to the radicalization of some groups leading ultimately to the formation of the unpleasant Zanu PF.
There are plenty of "good men" in Zimbabwe but these are largely powerless under such a ruthless and fascist regime.

[modeller]

The majority of African leaders still support Mugabe because they are mainly anti white . It doesn't matter what he does to his people he will remain a hero , one to be applauded at every conference. The silence of Mandela and the inaction of Mbeka., says it all . South Africa could have saved Zimbabwe years ago but chose not to. We should not interfere in any way. There are places where we must leave them to get on with it . It may be sad but in the long run it is the only way. Just look around the world over the past 100 years, where have really succeeded ?

[jno]

Mandela has no public position now and has done his best not to impede Mbeki. But he has certainly not been silent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/747456 1.stm

[chongalolo]

In African tribal culture there is still a very strong belief that their leaders carry Mhondoro - a lion spirit , which is very powerful and cannot be destroyed. Mugabe is believed to hold this power and therefore no black African will destroy the Mhondoro, as it would bring terrible misfortune to that person and his whole tribe.

As an ex-Rhodesian i am so sad for all the people there - can't bear to watch TV footage.

[TWR]

One meeting, One selection, One Item.One Day, One location, One shot, one hero, one Country Free, One Dictator gone. One easy answer.

[MWB]

It never ceases to amaze me how people still think the only reason America went into Iraq was for the oil! I've posted this a couple of times; America, in any conflict, has NEVER exploited/taken over any countries natural resource. So it is with Iraq.
The american people are hit just as hard as the rest of the world with the high fuel prices.