Gat Culture.

[MWB]

Why is there a gay culture? What does there need to be one for?
You're gay - so?

[HatlessJack]

Only if you impose retrospective national adjustments, legend.

[MWB]

Aye???

Irish, british - tomato, tomato.

Gay is gay.

So?

[legendis.god]

Not at all.

He was an Irish born man.
He died an Irish born man in Paris.
Granted there wouldn't have been Irish passports then and he could have considered himself British after possibly 5 years living in th uk.
Nonetheless that would not change the fact that he was born in Ireland unless you had the ability to go back in time and change the name of the country before his birth.
Though technically changing the name of a country , like the changing the name of the country Siam to that of Thailand does not physically change the location only the name.
Much like changing a marathon to a snickers bar.As long as you only change the name and its made identically in every way , except for the name , then its still a marathon isn't it?

So you can adjust borders if you want , but the facts still remain the same.

Why aren't you jack the hat anymore?
Or is this another name you have also?

[jno]

here you are, join the ice cream culture

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=48683 15215

though why it would bother anyone else is beyond me

[jno]

legend, remember Ireland actually was British at the time, had been since the Middle Ages. Wilde being Irish didn't mean that much more than if he'd been a Yorkshireman: more than a region but less than a country.

[HatlessJack]

Thankyou. legend.
But apart from once again demonstrating your formidible cut and paste skills..........you haven't brought much to the topic, in hand.

I was dungeoned for over-posting and got myself this name, instead. It is the only one I have used since well before Christmas..................I haven't investigated JtH to see if it has been resurrected.

DTH ?

[legendis.god]

jno thats a technicality .as i said , i could quote the duke of wellington who was also irish, though he used this to try and say he wasnt irish.
just because youre born in a stable doesnt make you a horse.

that aside are you saying that everyone born in ireland then was british?


idid say if wilde lived in the uk fr 5 years he could call himself a british citizen.

no matter who ruled the country of ireland , it was still ireland and hence oscar wilde being born there was irish.

i assume you know the duke of wellington was irish born ?

[legendis.god]

jack theres very little cut and paste involved there.
as i said ive visited dublin more than a dozen times been on the city tours and seen oscar wildes house.he was irish and i believe considered himself to be so.
as ive said the duke of wellington was also irish but didnt want to be known as such-

you could say jno on a technicality they were both anglo-irish but then thats certainly not british is it?

those are merely the facts and oscar wilde was definitely irish.

[jno]

I do. But in those days an 'Irishman' was as much British as a Welshman is now. It may suit Tom Jones to be Welsh, as it suits Geoffrey Boycott to be a Yorkie, but they're both British, and so was Wilde. It's more than a technicality, which is why the Irish fought it for so long. The kingdom of Ireland joined the kingdom of Great Britain in 1800 (it had been under English control before that) and it was treated in London at worst as a sort of rebellious province.

This does seem to be off-topic slightly

[legendis.god]

Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde.

[legendis.god]

Certainly not jno.

I dont think the irish had the same rights as either scottish or welsh?
Be they straight or gay.


He was without doubt irish t worst Anglo-irish.
But most certainly gay.

But ws he culturaly gay or irish ior british?

Can sexuality transcend national culture to a culture of sexuality ?

[HatlessJack]

But more importantly, he was a homosexual man who suffered because of that fact.

I'm sure you could post a thread of your own debating just how British the 19th Century Irish were, but this thread is about something else entirely.

HTH ?

[legendis.god]

No jack.
The thing is.
Did oscar wilde suffer more because he was an Irish homosexual or because he was a homosexual?

Strange that the irish wilde was tried for sexual indecency yet others at the time , high up in the english aristocracy werent.
Was this a result of him being irish ?

[B00]

Never mind this 'ere gay culture, I wan't to know about this Gat culture the title of the post mentioned!

[saxy_jag]

We have Asian culture, youth culture, black culture. I daresay there are more. They tend to form when their cultural and/or ethnic groups have been historical marginalised by society.

[jake-the-peg]

You know when I cited Oscar Wilde I did think about the British/Irish thing but I thought - it's not that important to the current discussion, nobody will want to get that sidetracked.

Oh well.

How about Alan Turing then? one of this countries greatest mathematical minds, key figure in the war effort, prosecuted and forced to have oestrogen injections to "cure" him.

Ended up killing himself

I guess it shows how far we've come that MWB can actually post "You're gay - so?"

[123everton]

I know when saw "gat" I thought it was about guns etc at first.
"You're gay, so?" is actually a valid point, I remember years ago sitting watching an American comedienne whose whole act revolved around being "a big fat d y k e" abysmal, I find Julian Clary similarly unimpressive for the same reason to drag blokes up and talk sexually to them is no funnier than Jim Davidson doing the same to a woman, it's victim comedy which I don't subscribe to.

[Octavius]

As said, it is about identity and commonality, whether that is in film, art, seasonal parades or general interests.

I do see what you are saying Everton. Like with Graham Norton and Julian Clary it seems we are to find them funny because they are extrovertly gay. The �ber camp act of many a Big Brother contestant is also rather tedious, but I guess if that is how they wish to define their individuality then that�s up to them. I do often find myself saying, ok so you are sooo gay it�s deemed to be hilarious, what now?

As a side issue, can anyone tell me why when there is a �show� in the relevant pubs on any of the soaps it is always a drag artiste? Although I consider this type of act dated � nobody could achieve or surpass the heights of Danny La Rue or Hinge & Brackett (imo) - I have nothing against it, I just wondered why it was always so in soaps.

[andy-hughes]

I think Hatless Jacxk has managed to answer the Question - without digressing off the thread.

Gay culture exists because gay people are a minority, and often an oppressed minority at that.

Any minority will gather together because the company of similar people, bound by what ever bond, ethnicity, sexuality, what ever - is more comfortable and relaxed.

Gay society differs from straight society in a number of attitudes and behaviours, and some overt gay behaviour makes straight people unfomfortable, even hostile, so it makes sense to mix in pubs and clubs where everyone is of a similar approach - or understands those who are. For ecxample, I rarely go to gay clubs, but when I have, I accept that I may be approached, which personally I find flattering, and not at all uncomfortable.

As for the 'gay pride' events - as Hatless explains, it can for some gay people be the only time they can exprerss their lifestyle and partnerships for the world to see, with the advantage of safety in numbers.

Yes we are a more enlightened society, but there is still enough homophobia to make most gay people be aware that they cannot simply 'be' without checking the attitudes of friends and collagues - something that heterosexuals, for whom 'being' is as natural as breathing, do not have to endure.

You're gay - so?

So a section of society will still laugh at you / fear you / think you are a child molester / expect you to sexually assault them / react with violence against you / hate you / avoid you / talk about you behind your back / despise you ... the list goes on.

That's why.

[Ethel]

I've known quite a few lesbians and homosexuals - some embrace 'the gay culture' whilst others go out of their way to avoid it.