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Blitz Street
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I watched the Tony Robinson programme tonight about the Blitz, and wondered how the people of today would cope. That generation got on with it. They helped each other, and the more they took, the stronger and more determined to withstand the onslaught they seemed to become. So how do you think today's society would fare in those circumstances?
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In that in the same situation we would cope the same way as during the war, I think people would pull together to help each oher, the problem would be the criminals and druggies with no moral standards would be looting like there is no tomorrow. Lets just hope it never happens!! Keep up the good work Sam Harris, he got the best chance of preventing this ever happening to us again.
It's likely that things would be fairly similar. You only need to watch how people come together in the face of even minor adversity to see that 'bonding together' is not a thing of the past. For example, when I ran a railway station, the commuters would stand next to each other on the platform in silence. Then they'd get onto the train, still completely ignoring each other. But if the line was closed, and we had to herd them onto buses, everyone would start talking to each other, cracking jokes and sharing stories, with a camaraderie quickly developing.
It's also worth remembering that it's a bit of a myth that everyone responded positively during the Blitz. Crime levels soared to record highs as looters, thieves and spivs took advantage of the opportunities opened up to them by bombs and blackouts.
Chris
It's also worth remembering that it's a bit of a myth that everyone responded positively during the Blitz. Crime levels soared to record highs as looters, thieves and spivs took advantage of the opportunities opened up to them by bombs and blackouts.
Chris
Having lived through (most) of the blitz(I was away fighting for a good deal of it).I can say that "Blitz Street" may make good TV,but it is really a cleaned up/sanitised version of the blitz and not really like it at all!
As for your statement "That generation got on with it. They helped each other, and the more they took, the stronger and more determined to withstand the onslaught they seemed to become" made me laugh(in an ironic way).
Why?
SOME helped each other,the more well off still had money,savings and their own means of keeping their heads above water.
Working class people who were bombed(and who in general rented their homes) had nothing after being bombed out,they had to depend on friends and relatives for help and accomodation,there was no real government help(long term).
Even so there were many black marketeers who could get items that were in high demand but low supply.Again,fine for the middle and upper classes,but the working class could not afford such luxuiries.These black marketeers were known to the Police,but nothing was (usually) done as it would have admitted their existence and damaged morale.
"The more they took,the stronger and more determined they became"?
Wrong!
At the end of the war Britain's morale was rock bottom,People can only take so much before they start to crack.Again the working class was the one who's morale suffered most. If you can find any reports online from something called Mass Observation,you will soon see how low Britain had sunk come 1945.
As for your statement "That generation got on with it. They helped each other, and the more they took, the stronger and more determined to withstand the onslaught they seemed to become" made me laugh(in an ironic way).
Why?
SOME helped each other,the more well off still had money,savings and their own means of keeping their heads above water.
Working class people who were bombed(and who in general rented their homes) had nothing after being bombed out,they had to depend on friends and relatives for help and accomodation,there was no real government help(long term).
Even so there were many black marketeers who could get items that were in high demand but low supply.Again,fine for the middle and upper classes,but the working class could not afford such luxuiries.These black marketeers were known to the Police,but nothing was (usually) done as it would have admitted their existence and damaged morale.
"The more they took,the stronger and more determined they became"?
Wrong!
At the end of the war Britain's morale was rock bottom,People can only take so much before they start to crack.Again the working class was the one who's morale suffered most. If you can find any reports online from something called Mass Observation,you will soon see how low Britain had sunk come 1945.
So please spare me the old cliched "blitz spirit" because it never really existed,but like today's TV was an invention of government and the press.
We were just lucky the ways things turnes out in 1944/45,if they hadn't been positive I don't what might have happened.There were severe revolutionary rumblings,whatever that might have led to I don't know,but this has always been hidden from the modern public.
Today's society would fall to pieces in no time at all, there would be murders,looting and general chaos.
We suffered wartime deprivations because we knew no beeter,and never answered back and did as we were told.
I cannot imagine today's society doing that(for good or ill).
We were just lucky the ways things turnes out in 1944/45,if they hadn't been positive I don't what might have happened.There were severe revolutionary rumblings,whatever that might have led to I don't know,but this has always been hidden from the modern public.
Today's society would fall to pieces in no time at all, there would be murders,looting and general chaos.
We suffered wartime deprivations because we knew no beeter,and never answered back and did as we were told.
I cannot imagine today's society doing that(for good or ill).
This is MassObs site,
It's very interesting.
It heartens me to that ABer's think the same would happen today.
Sadly,no film or TV can bring home the awful truth of it.
I arrived home on leave in 1944,to find my Mothers home destroyed by a bomb(she died),my Father had died in bombing in 1942.
Nobody could(or was interested) to tell me where my neighbours had gone,and more to the point where my sisters and brother were,and if they were alive.
I spent my leave in an Army hostel,distraught,desolate and aloneI took me until Dec 1945(after the war was over) to get ANY information as to where (and how) they were~
due to a combination of red tape,ignotance and downright not caring/rudeness from people.
You must remember war brings out the worst in people,and makes many resort to extreme acts of selfishmess.
I cannot list all the disgusting and mean things that when on in Britain in WW2,but I don't think there has been a disaster since then that could bring it home to people.
End of rant! LOL
It's very interesting.
It heartens me to that ABer's think the same would happen today.
Sadly,no film or TV can bring home the awful truth of it.
I arrived home on leave in 1944,to find my Mothers home destroyed by a bomb(she died),my Father had died in bombing in 1942.
Nobody could(or was interested) to tell me where my neighbours had gone,and more to the point where my sisters and brother were,and if they were alive.
I spent my leave in an Army hostel,distraught,desolate and aloneI took me until Dec 1945(after the war was over) to get ANY information as to where (and how) they were~
due to a combination of red tape,ignotance and downright not caring/rudeness from people.
You must remember war brings out the worst in people,and makes many resort to extreme acts of selfishmess.
I cannot list all the disgusting and mean things that when on in Britain in WW2,but I don't think there has been a disaster since then that could bring it home to people.
End of rant! LOL
naomi,Perhaps I didn't explain myself.
What I detest is the "false history" that is taught today abou the so called (and practically) non~existent "blitz spirit" in WW2.This is diseminated by today's goverment and media to make us think that this was a wonderful time,when in reality it was a really awful time.
I have no rose tinted glasses about WW2.
What I detest is the "false history" that is taught today abou the so called (and practically) non~existent "blitz spirit" in WW2.This is diseminated by today's goverment and media to make us think that this was a wonderful time,when in reality it was a really awful time.
I have no rose tinted glasses about WW2.
I don't see it as a rant. I like to think that the people of today would find some sort of camaraderie - at least I hope they would for all our sakes - but I think the decent people who lived through those terrible times were brave and resilient, and I'm genuinely fortunate to be able to listen to those who have been there, done it, and have well and truly got the T-shirt! Thank you Mr V.
Thank You naomi,
You see(sadly) I have few illusions about man and society being a cohesive culture.
After going through WW2,and seeing what the Germans inflicted on the Jews,I regard ALL culture ans only skin deep.Scratch the surface and just below it are all our animal instincts just waiting to het out!
Nearly 90 years of living have only served to convince me over and over again.
I am sorry if this saddens you,I hope people could work together in such circumstances,but (only personally) I doubt it.
You see(sadly) I have few illusions about man and society being a cohesive culture.
After going through WW2,and seeing what the Germans inflicted on the Jews,I regard ALL culture ans only skin deep.Scratch the surface and just below it are all our animal instincts just waiting to het out!
Nearly 90 years of living have only served to convince me over and over again.
I am sorry if this saddens you,I hope people could work together in such circumstances,but (only personally) I doubt it.
Mr V. Im sorry you had such a bad experience during those days as all the nation did although I wasnt around at the time my parents often told me tales of the blitz days and I must say they told of geat bonding and friendship, its not all as you think, maybe different areas, classes and cultures responded differently, I certainly believe what my parents told me.
RATTER and Naomi,
RATTTER
As I said in one of my replies,if you were middle or upper class you didn't fare badly in WW2.
Indeed working class country folk,although short of many foods didn't starve,or get bombed(generally).
My perspective was (and is) from the point of view of a working class London family,and we (& they) had it very bad.
Yes,people in your own street helped you,but go to the next street and you were shunned and looked on very suspiciously,much like tribal warfare.As I said before,this part of the war has been neatly hidden away(in case it ever happens again?)
Naomi,and this is NO disrespect,if you had lived thriugh it, seen what I saw(here in the UK,and even more horrifingly in Germany) you might be a cynic too!
Here endeth the 24th Lesson! LOL
RATTTER
As I said in one of my replies,if you were middle or upper class you didn't fare badly in WW2.
Indeed working class country folk,although short of many foods didn't starve,or get bombed(generally).
My perspective was (and is) from the point of view of a working class London family,and we (& they) had it very bad.
Yes,people in your own street helped you,but go to the next street and you were shunned and looked on very suspiciously,much like tribal warfare.As I said before,this part of the war has been neatly hidden away(in case it ever happens again?)
Naomi,and this is NO disrespect,if you had lived thriugh it, seen what I saw(here in the UK,and even more horrifingly in Germany) you might be a cynic too!
Here endeth the 24th Lesson! LOL
I suppose the closest modern equivalent is to see how people react after a natural disaster such as an earthquake or tsunami.
Whilst there are people who genuinely care for their fellow man, there is also a huge amount of "I'm out for what I can get" attitude, hence all the looting and rioting that goes on.
This demonstrates the different attitudes within a society, and it may be that each society will act differently (and indeed does).
We like to think that the old (extinct?) British sense of fair play and "stiff upper lip" would come into play, but don't forget that in the last war society was more community based than it is now. How many people now don't even know their next door neighbour, let alone who lives 10 doors away. So we now have less sense of compassion for the other people we live with because we just don't know them.
And I'm afraid we are also a far more diverse country than we were during the war, we have a far greater number of "foreign" communities who may not share our British attitudes towards each other.
Whilst there are people who genuinely care for their fellow man, there is also a huge amount of "I'm out for what I can get" attitude, hence all the looting and rioting that goes on.
This demonstrates the different attitudes within a society, and it may be that each society will act differently (and indeed does).
We like to think that the old (extinct?) British sense of fair play and "stiff upper lip" would come into play, but don't forget that in the last war society was more community based than it is now. How many people now don't even know their next door neighbour, let alone who lives 10 doors away. So we now have less sense of compassion for the other people we live with because we just don't know them.
And I'm afraid we are also a far more diverse country than we were during the war, we have a far greater number of "foreign" communities who may not share our British attitudes towards each other.
Mr.V, my parents were working class and from the East End of London. My father was a Desert Rat and saw a lot more than he wanted to, and my mother survived the blitz, and so also saw more than she wanted to. When I asked the question, I wasn't thinking about people helping each other on a personal basis, but rather of the community spirit that existed within those who helped wherever they could, for example in extinguishing fires, and rescuing people, or digging out bodies, buried in rubble.
Willowman, you've made some very astute observations, and I think your analogy is an excellent one.
Willowman, you've made some very astute observations, and I think your analogy is an excellent one.
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Thank You birdie,
One does one's best to impart first hand knowledge of the time.
Sadly,even some people who were there were taken in by the "spin"
We got on with things because we AHD to, not because we WANTED to.
When I worked for SOE I got to hear information that was not for general consumption,and who knows it might be that it shouldn't be available today (much wartime propoganda information is still classified!)
AS people my age (with practical experience of WW2) die off the "false history" takes over.I suppose that applies to all history that has no longer any living witnesses,governments can make it into what they want.
One does one's best to impart first hand knowledge of the time.
Sadly,even some people who were there were taken in by the "spin"
We got on with things because we AHD to, not because we WANTED to.
When I worked for SOE I got to hear information that was not for general consumption,and who knows it might be that it shouldn't be available today (much wartime propoganda information is still classified!)
AS people my age (with practical experience of WW2) die off the "false history" takes over.I suppose that applies to all history that has no longer any living witnesses,governments can make it into what they want.
-- answer removed --
