Can the christian (or muslim for that matter) doctrine of hell

[kryptic]

ever be justified?
I have a friend who started to attend a pentecostal church a couple of years ago. Some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is frankly alarming.
We got talking the other day about the afterlife (which I dont believe in) and he seems to think that it is perfectly justifiable that I will spend my eternity in hell because I dont believe in God. (at least not in the religious sense). I have lost a fair few loved ones over the years, all good people but not religious, and he seems to think that its justified in some way to believe that these folk are burning in a fiery lake. If it wasnt for the fact that I believe he has been brainwashed (and the fact that we have been friends a long time) I might be tempted to clock him one when he comes out with stuff like this.
Any thoughts on hell or on how to deal with this kind of indoctrination?

[boxtops]

There is so much good and lovely in the world though, classylady - today has been glorious, the spring flowers are brilliant - we get hung up on all the bad stuff, much of which which as individuals can't influence.

[kryptic]

keyplus, I didnt say that I dont believe in god. What I said was I dont believe in god in a religious sense. (if anything, I'm a deist, but I dont like labels....too restricting)
"then what is the worry"?
The worry is how can anyone believe that eternally tortoring someone is justified.

[kryptic]

I would still like to know how anyone can think that eternally tortoring someone can be justified? Its such a horrible doctrine to grapple with whether its a christian or muslim (or any other religion) doctrine.
And what is the difference between the christian hell and the muslim hell?

[mike11111]

The difference is that in the Christian Hell Satan lets you have a couple of bottles of booze now and then, just to show that he's not all bad.

[Cowtipper]

Muslim hell is filled full of fanatics that blew themselves up. Christian hell is full of televangelists.

[classylady60]

I understand what you mean boxtops, but with the evil influences outweighing the good, I feel it is hell and we are just allowed a few glimpses of good and beautiful things....then they are taken away by the bad. (More complicated than that and too lengthy for me to go into here).

[ixion]

This eternal torturing of the damned must be very labour intensive - where does Satan get the Staff?

[Cowtipper]

Haliburton

[keyplus90]

So you believe in God but not in religious sense. That is first time for me. Would you give me any idea that how and what do you know about God that has no religious reference.

//////I would still like to know how anyone can think that eternally tortoring someone can be justified? Its such a horrible doctrine to grapple with whether its a christian or muslim (or any other religion) doctrine./////

To answer your above question, I would refer to what Classylady said earlier and what boxtop mentioned as response. Even in this world I believe majority of people are happy and have good life. They may not be satisfied with what they have as that is more or less human nature. Same like that you are talking about hell in Bible and Quran. I will speak about Muslims perspective (I will let someone else explain Christian bit). There are more verse in Quran at least one to hundred may be) where Quran speaks about God’s mercy than his anger or terror or whatever you may call that. Islam clearly states that anyone who believes in Just one true God will not go to hell forever. They may be put there for their other worldly sins as punishment for a limited period of time. Just like people are put in prison for wrong doings.

And for others who either do not believe in God alone or believe in false gods even when they did hear the idea or talk about ONLY ONE GOD will have to stay in hell and very simply that is the price you pay for free will to choose whatever you want to choose or perhaps deny all together. Choice is yours and you have all the time till you have taken your last breath to look around, do your study, compare all what is available and make your choice. Usually you are never given what question would be asked on the day of your test or exam. Here we even have that too. We know the questions and we know what the answers are. What else would you ask for?

[mike11111]

I prefer Sartre's definition: "L'enfer, c'est les autres!"

[beso]

Keyplus's story of free choice but eternal punishment if you fail to choose one God alone sounds very much like the choices offered by the likes of Hilter, Mao Tse Tung and countless other fascists throughout history.

[beso]

The theists philosophy teaches that we have a free choice here and now but will be punished for that choice when we die.

Why is it then that so many theists decide to deny that God given right to choice and inflict the punishment upon the unbelievers themselves right away rather than leave it to God?

[wildwood]

I believe in Hell and that it contains all anti-christian things. As fire is a gift from God it can not be present in Hell.

Can't wait for my turn; unlimited booze and debauchery, etc.

[kryptic]

keyplus...
"So you believe in God but not in religious sense. That is first time for me. Would you give me any idea that how and what do you know about God that has no religious reference. "
I cant call myself an atheist as such because I believe in some kind of first cause but not neccesarily a 'conscious' or personal being (of course I cannot substantiate that belief any more than you can substantiate yours). I suppose that I would have to label myself a deist if anything.

"And for others who either do not believe in God alone or believe in false gods even when they did hear the idea or talk about ONLY ONE GOD will have to stay in hell and very simply that is the price you pay for free will "
My wife has free will to love me or not to love me. If she chooses not to love me and to walk away then that is her choice (and free will) However, if I tell her that I will burn her alive if she no longer chooses to stay with me then that IS NOT free will. THAT is an ultimatum

[DTCwordfan]

ClassyLady is right - and hell is even closer. Being sentenced to eternity by reading every post on AB.

And that's the Ed sunk - going to the inferno ovens to be cooked like a Bernard Matthews turkey is not even an option.

[Philtaz]

Personally, I think Jean-Paul Sartre sums it up perfectly........

[tara20]

I'm very suspicious of all organised religions. There may well be some kind of entity out there, I wouldn't dismiss that out of hand (keeping my options open;-)).
But if there is anyone up there, He (or She!) can't be very happy at the misuse of power in His name by ground staff. That's all hell is, a threat to keep power over the gullible masses

[Mick-Talbot]

and for others who either do not believe in God alone or believe in false gods even when they did hear the idea or talk about ONLY ONE GOD will have to stay in hell and very simply that is the price you pay for free will to choose whatever you want to choose or perhaps deny all together. Choice is yours and you have all the time till you have taken your last breath to look around, do your study, compare all what is available and make your choice.



do your study............? study of what?

[keyplus90]

////My wife has free will to love me or not to love me. If she chooses not to love me and to walk away then that is her choice (and free will) However, if I tell her that I will burn her alive if she no longer chooses to stay with me then that IS NOT free will. THAT is an ultimatum/////

That all depends upon if you love your wife or do not. Suppose you love your wife to bits and she decides not to love you but instead decides to go with someone who YOU KNOW (but your wife does not) is a very bad person and have history of abusing women physically as well as mentally. And you are 100% sure that your wife would suffer rest of her life if she decides to end up with him. Now what would you do?

1 – Would you just let her go and be quiet and wait for her to lean her lesson as you believe that after all she was old enough to know what she was doing?

2 – Would you tell her that it would be OK if she wanted to leave you but at least she should not fall in the hands of that bad man as after all you did really love her and was worried about her?

Which of these two choices would you take?

[NOX]

Keyplus that example makes no sense whatsoever, much like most of the stuff spouted by religionist apologists when faced with why this ' merciful' god threatens to torture people for eternity if they don't do as they are told.