biblical evidences,

[kryptic]

????
Any evidences of biblical stories?
Fact or fable?

[beso]

Thanks for the reference re Lots being righteous.

No doubt the moral here is that a good host would rather destroy the lives of his daughters than see a gues defiles.

Indeed the guests were angels who should have been able to simply ascend back to heaven. They could have saves the housekeeper but then Lot would not have been able to incite his people.

Modern forensic science would have probably revealed that Lot actually raped his housekeeper and tried to cover up the crime.

[Zabadak]

Kryptic - the "righteous" designation is in a discussion about the primacy of faith. Lot did not impregnate his daughters, or take up residency in Sodom, out of faith, rather the lack of it and is nowhere commended for these things. My point (again) is that the patriarchs are not held up as examples of perfect living: rather wonderfully, they are portrayed "warts and all".

[beso]

Come on Zab (or anyone):

Please explain how the fable of Lot teaches us advanced morality.
If you can't then perhaps you should rethink (oh actually, think for the first time) about why this horrible book deserves the slightest respect.

[Zabadak]

Incidentally, Beso, I've been shown the pillar of salt that Lot's wife turned into. Probably not the best piece of evidence, though.

[beso]

Zab //rather wonderfully, they are portrayed "warts and all".//

Amazing how the most vile can be perceived by the faithful as virtue. How stupid are you?

[beso]

Clearly stupid enough to believe that a pillar of salt used to be a woman.

[kryptic]

So let me get this right Zabadak, You can rape, kill, steal, lie, but as long as you have faith then you are righteous?
I thought my fundemental christian mate was was delusional until I joined this forum...

[Zabadak]

Beso: Perhaps, the story of Lot teaches us that even the most horrible crimes don't put people out of the reach of God's forgiveness and grace, that the biggest mistakes don't necessarily place people beyond redemption. I don't think it teaches us that raping choirboys is ok.

[Zabadak]

Beso //Clearly stupid enough to believe that a pillar of salt used to be a woman.// I was being facetious. Do try to keep up

[beso]

That is exactly how it works Fezzy.

They accept anyone so long as they promise to do whatever they are told. Kill those people but be sure keep the women alive while you hack the babies from their womb and kill it in their sight.

Not making it up. This instruction is in the Bible.

Please explain this lesson in morality.

[kryptic]

"I don't think it teaches us that raping choirboys is ok. "
No. But it does teach us that rape victims have to marry their attacker.
Deuteronomy 22:28 http://www.biblegatew...nomy%2022&version=NIV
What kind of morality is this?

[beso]

It is very hard to tell facetious from a sincere belief in the Bible.

Love the way you won't address the real issues.

[Zabadak]

Fezzy \\Again, regarding Lot: If the bible is a guide to morality, whereabouts in the bible is he condemned for his appalling actions?\\ Incest is condemned in many places in the Bible. Strange that Lot didn't read the relevant chapters of Leviticus before his dalliance with his daughters.

[Zabadak]

\Beso. The real issue here is "are there evidences for biblical events?". The answer is yes for some of them. You seem to want to turn it into a discussion about relative moralities. Care to start a new topic?

[kryptic]

zabadak, are you not going to answer my question?
How moral is it that a rape victim has to marry here attacker?