ChatterBank9 mins ago
sins to send you to hell (FAO keyplus especially)
110 Answers
In this thread http://www.theanswerb.../Question1013029.html
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied
// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.
1 - yes for certain sins. //
birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied
// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.
1 - yes for certain sins. //
birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)
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One mans hell is another mans perversion... one mans heaven anothers hell... Be interesting if it was real.... there would need to be as many hells as there are people
Or maybe they would simply be kept in a room and forced to watch re runs of their lives until they understood what they had done wrong
Or maybe they would simply be kept in a room and forced to watch re runs of their lives until they understood what they had done wrong
So you do not believe in hell, then there is your answer that I gave you for same question on few threads down.
////keyplus90
I don't know whay atheists are so worried (all the time) about these things. If you do not believe in God, Paradise and Hell then what is the worry? For you it does not exist and thats the end of it.
Or are you not sure?
21:28 Fri 22nd Apr 2011/////
////keyplus90
I don't know whay atheists are so worried (all the time) about these things. If you do not believe in God, Paradise and Hell then what is the worry? For you it does not exist and thats the end of it.
Or are you not sure?
21:28 Fri 22nd Apr 2011/////
I think keyplus that we are all just interested in an intelligent discussion and trying to understand why people with differing views have those differing views. I for one am not out to slate anyone for what they think, each ot his own tbh, but it's nice if you do at least answer the question and not fob people off, that's just pointless and rude.
Keyplus, where does any Atheist say they are worried, I'm certainly not, more confused and looking for explanations as to why people have fallen for this load of tosh, ie, the Koran and the Bible, it defies any logic or reason.
Maybe some Atheists are angry that we see so much barbaric suffering caused by religious fanatics who carrying out these atrocities to be closer to god.
Confused, yes, angry, yes, but certainly not worried about a fictitious man in the sky!!
Maybe some Atheists are angry that we see so much barbaric suffering caused by religious fanatics who carrying out these atrocities to be closer to god.
Confused, yes, angry, yes, but certainly not worried about a fictitious man in the sky!!
The existence of Hell used to scare the jeebers out of me as a youngster, Then I discovered that if you repent before you meet your maker you shall enjoy the fruits of the faithful and enjoy eternal happiness. A bit like a professional dole bludger, I suppose.
I don't believe any of the religious claptrap but am fascinated by how sometimes very intelligent people can be duped by this worldwide deceit. I am certainly not anti-religion except those who demand special consideration by Society - Indian who are exempt from wearing a helmet if they wear a turban, Muslims who are allowed to hide their face whereas others have to remove their helmet when they go into the bank etc. etc.
I don't believe any of the religious claptrap but am fascinated by how sometimes very intelligent people can be duped by this worldwide deceit. I am certainly not anti-religion except those who demand special consideration by Society - Indian who are exempt from wearing a helmet if they wear a turban, Muslims who are allowed to hide their face whereas others have to remove their helmet when they go into the bank etc. etc.
I see what keyplus is saying
i do not believe in any religion, heaven, hell or anything else associated with religion
I do not ask questions about it because it does not matter to me what the answer a believer gives, to me it is irrelevant. If to me it does not exist why would i ask about it?
A lot of athiests just seem to like to provoke or to mock believers.
I respect other peoples beliefs as long as they are not to be forced on me
i do not believe in any religion, heaven, hell or anything else associated with religion
I do not ask questions about it because it does not matter to me what the answer a believer gives, to me it is irrelevant. If to me it does not exist why would i ask about it?
A lot of athiests just seem to like to provoke or to mock believers.
I respect other peoples beliefs as long as they are not to be forced on me
Denise, you really need to look at the bigger picture, your view is at best very naive.
These religions are killing innocent people and running our lives in so many different ways, until people wake up to these stark facts instead of just sitting on the fence innocent people will continue to die all over the world, religion is like a cancer that cant be stopped, but it can be slowed down.
These religions are killing innocent people and running our lives in so many different ways, until people wake up to these stark facts instead of just sitting on the fence innocent people will continue to die all over the world, religion is like a cancer that cant be stopped, but it can be slowed down.
Yes but I really don't agree with you Denise, I don't believe in hell, but niether am I an atheist but I am still interested in everyone's opinions- my own won't change I don't think, but I find debate of all sorts very interesting, and I can't see why no-one answers the bl00dy quesition and relies on arguments like ' you don't believe so why should you care?' I care because I seek to further my knowledge by understanding my fellow man's opinions- evens if I don't agree with them.
I see what others on this site mean when they say that keyplus evades questions.
I simply reiterated birdies question..
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
and keyplus simply ignores the question.
I wonder if he is a politician?
I simply reiterated birdies question..
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
and keyplus simply ignores the question.
I wonder if he is a politician?
//Ratter "These religions are killing innocent people"
religion:The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
A belief kills people? No- and guns don't kill people either. People kill people. Nature kills people. People kill themselves. God doesn't associate with us much so if I hear voices in my head its not religion that I consider first. I'd consider it a free flashback. Any rational person would consider the prospect and demand proof. A irrational person would act on an impulse or personal desire. You want to blame religion because you don't like what you know of it. There are plenty of killers out there that work for greed, anger, lust, power, indifference that have the exact same moral outlook you do.
The worldwide hotspots for murder aren't religious as far as I can tell according to http://chartsbin.com/view/ueh. Its about money and gangs(which equates to money).
religion:The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
A belief kills people? No- and guns don't kill people either. People kill people. Nature kills people. People kill themselves. God doesn't associate with us much so if I hear voices in my head its not religion that I consider first. I'd consider it a free flashback. Any rational person would consider the prospect and demand proof. A irrational person would act on an impulse or personal desire. You want to blame religion because you don't like what you know of it. There are plenty of killers out there that work for greed, anger, lust, power, indifference that have the exact same moral outlook you do.
The worldwide hotspots for murder aren't religious as far as I can tell according to http://chartsbin.com/view/ueh. Its about money and gangs(which equates to money).
Nox – only for you as you asked for it. Here is the answer I gave him just few days ago. He has very short memory so what can I do then? And it was his own thread too so perhaps he should read before saying that keyplus never answer question. But I know very well that it is propaganda. As someone once said that tell a lie with so consistency that it should start sounding like truth.
keyplus90
So you believe in God but not in religious sense. That is first time for me. Would you give me any idea that how and what do you know about God that has no religious reference.
//////I would still like to know how anyone can think that eternally tortoring someone can be justified? Its such a horrible doctrine to grapple with whether its a christian or muslim (or any other religion) doctrine./////
To answer your above question, I would refer to what Classylady said earlier and what boxtop mentioned as response. Even in this world I believe majority of people are happy and have good life. They may not be satisfied with what they have as that is more or less human nature. Same like that you are talking about hell in Bible and Quran. I will speak about Muslims perspective (I will let someone else explain Christian bit). There are more verse in Quran at least one to hundred may be) where Quran speaks about God’s mercy than his anger or terror or whatever you may call that. Islam clearly states that anyone who believes in Just one true God will not go to hell forever. They may be put there for their other worldly sins as punishment for a limited period of time. Just like people are put in prison for wrong doings.
And for others who either do not believe in God alone or believe in false gods even when they did hear the idea or talk about ONLY ONE GOD will have to stay in hell and very simply that is the price you pay for free will to choose whatever you want to choose or perhaps deny all together. Choice is you
keyplus90
So you believe in God but not in religious sense. That is first time for me. Would you give me any idea that how and what do you know about God that has no religious reference.
//////I would still like to know how anyone can think that eternally tortoring someone can be justified? Its such a horrible doctrine to grapple with whether its a christian or muslim (or any other religion) doctrine./////
To answer your above question, I would refer to what Classylady said earlier and what boxtop mentioned as response. Even in this world I believe majority of people are happy and have good life. They may not be satisfied with what they have as that is more or less human nature. Same like that you are talking about hell in Bible and Quran. I will speak about Muslims perspective (I will let someone else explain Christian bit). There are more verse in Quran at least one to hundred may be) where Quran speaks about God’s mercy than his anger or terror or whatever you may call that. Islam clearly states that anyone who believes in Just one true God will not go to hell forever. They may be put there for their other worldly sins as punishment for a limited period of time. Just like people are put in prison for wrong doings.
And for others who either do not believe in God alone or believe in false gods even when they did hear the idea or talk about ONLY ONE GOD will have to stay in hell and very simply that is the price you pay for free will to choose whatever you want to choose or perhaps deny all together. Choice is you
cont:
and you have all the time till you have taken your last breath to look around, do your study, compare all what is available and make your choice. Usually you are never given what question would be asked on the day of your test or exam. Here we even have that too. We know the questions and we know what the answers are. What else would you ask for?
21:18 Sat 23rd Apr 2011
and you have all the time till you have taken your last breath to look around, do your study, compare all what is available and make your choice. Usually you are never given what question would be asked on the day of your test or exam. Here we even have that too. We know the questions and we know what the answers are. What else would you ask for?
21:18 Sat 23rd Apr 2011
denise1610, I think you are wrong in saying that "A lot of athiests just seem to like to provoke or to mock believers." Atheists mostly just want to understand how our world works and why people think as they do. Asking questions of those who have religious beliefs is not mocking them and need not be seen as provoking, unless you mean provoking them into analysing their religious beliefs. Sure sometimes atheists will mock and provoke, but then so will those with religious beliefs.
Cowtipper - you are of course right ... people kill people. The trouble is though that throughout history and in the present day sick people often use their religion as an excuse to kill!
Cowtipper - you are of course right ... people kill people. The trouble is though that throughout history and in the present day sick people often use their religion as an excuse to kill!
I feel ya Ratter. Sorry if I come across that way. Personally I think its insane to kill somebody out of any reason short of a real and present danger. There are much bigger issues at work than religion even when people say its for God. Sometimes your attacks on faith come across the same way as mine came to you.
Yes CowTipper People kill people.
However some of these people who kill people write books about how they are guided by a higher power to commit these murders. Understandably most cases where this happens we acknowledge the people involved and those who accept that kind of justification are psychopaths.
Unfortunately at various times throughout history certain groups of these psychopaths have taken control and insisted that the books written by their raving lunatic leaders be upheld as eternal truths and the basis for the lawful behaviour in their societies causing them to descend into theo-fascist oligarchies.
Tragically, since the "wisdom" of the books dictates that anyone who criticises the book is guilt of a capital crime, the loonies managed to dominate much of the world for more than a thousand years. They also assumed complete control of education and social relationships making it extremely difficult to dislodge them from power.
Fortunately some brave people fought for secular freedoms and in some parts of the work the loonies' grip on control has weakened allowing the heretical alternative to be heard.
Those who grew up with their mind poisoned by the loonies are generally trapped by the doctrine implanted into their infant brains. Their minds are so damaged that they are unable to comprehend the depth of moral corruption they have been subjected to. Despite the dangers of the philosophies objectively pointed out tho them they remain programmed to revert to the book when under pressure.
Fortunately as generations pass and young people have the opportunity for a balanced perspective, the power and influence of religion is fading into irrelevance. However we must not be complacent and especially be aware of the danger presented by societies still dominated by religious doctrine.
However some of these people who kill people write books about how they are guided by a higher power to commit these murders. Understandably most cases where this happens we acknowledge the people involved and those who accept that kind of justification are psychopaths.
Unfortunately at various times throughout history certain groups of these psychopaths have taken control and insisted that the books written by their raving lunatic leaders be upheld as eternal truths and the basis for the lawful behaviour in their societies causing them to descend into theo-fascist oligarchies.
Tragically, since the "wisdom" of the books dictates that anyone who criticises the book is guilt of a capital crime, the loonies managed to dominate much of the world for more than a thousand years. They also assumed complete control of education and social relationships making it extremely difficult to dislodge them from power.
Fortunately some brave people fought for secular freedoms and in some parts of the work the loonies' grip on control has weakened allowing the heretical alternative to be heard.
Those who grew up with their mind poisoned by the loonies are generally trapped by the doctrine implanted into their infant brains. Their minds are so damaged that they are unable to comprehend the depth of moral corruption they have been subjected to. Despite the dangers of the philosophies objectively pointed out tho them they remain programmed to revert to the book when under pressure.
Fortunately as generations pass and young people have the opportunity for a balanced perspective, the power and influence of religion is fading into irrelevance. However we must not be complacent and especially be aware of the danger presented by societies still dominated by religious doctrine.
Beso have you read the four gospels as an adult? (Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John) I'd start with the NIV version as the Old King Jimmy isn't as accurate as it should be. Politics instead of religion unfortunately.
You seem to denounce people that hold up the Bible or the Koran but seem fine with those that hold up the Wall Street Journal and proclaim that money is God. Yes there are people that manipulate others for their own gain and will use whatever tools available to do it.
If you want insanity look at how many people have died and are dieing over an atheist's society like communism.
You seem to denounce people that hold up the Bible or the Koran but seem fine with those that hold up the Wall Street Journal and proclaim that money is God. Yes there are people that manipulate others for their own gain and will use whatever tools available to do it.
If you want insanity look at how many people have died and are dieing over an atheist's society like communism.
"the Old King Jimmy isn't as accurate as it should be."
By which I take you to mean that it does not accord with certain American preconceptions of biblical truth so a tailor-made version is required to echo what you believe to be the truth. This is why the Jehovah's Witnesses have their very own version of the Bible.
By which I take you to mean that it does not accord with certain American preconceptions of biblical truth so a tailor-made version is required to echo what you believe to be the truth. This is why the Jehovah's Witnesses have their very own version of the Bible.
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