sins to send you to hell (FAO keyplus especially)

[kryptic]

In this thread http://www.theanswerb.../Question1013029.html
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied

// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.

1 - yes for certain sins. //

birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //

To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)

[Cowtipper]

"Cowtipper - “Religion puts God first. Communism puts the state first. The atheist puts themselves first. Right?”

Wrong. Because it depends on the individual atheist. Personally, I would put the human race first as a general principal. "

Let me rephrase then:
Christians believe in the morals set forth by Jesus.
Communism relies on the morals put forward by Marx.
The atheist relies on his/her own personal morals.

[kryptic]

// Kryptic – I'm sure can now see why debates with Keyplus go absolutely nowhere.//
Yep. Ive been checking in on this thread in the (vain) hope that he might have given an answer. Religious folk are quite slippery when asked to provide an answer to a rational question it would seem.

[Cowtipper]

First... I have odd views about heaven and hell, so take all of this from a personal perspective. Second... I'm not an expert. Third a simple google search will explain this in better terms than I can but make sure you read the chapter and understand the root and circumstances (keep it in context) and interpret your own translations from the root Hebrew and Greek.

Ezekiel 28:
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.

Talking about Satan already walking around brimstone before he fell from grace.


Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. [19] All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’”

Satan is tossed into a lake of fire according to Revelations and is no more. Everything tossed in the lake will be consumed "will be no more".

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

We don't go to heaven when we die, nor to hell.


Matthew 13:

[47] “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. [48] When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. [49] This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous [50] and th

[Cowtipper]

... from the righteous [50] and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If I get tossed into a furnace I'll weep and gnash my teeth too.

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? [13] No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven.

Isaiah 66
[22] “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. [23] From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. [24] “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

The worms don't die and the fire won't die. Nothing in this says that people won't die.

Revalations 14:
[9] A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, [10] they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. [11] And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

[13] Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

[11]- the smoke rises forever

[Cowtipper]

(cont.)
[11]- the smoke rises forever- there will be no rest compared to those that will rest.

If you get your earthly body tossed into a lake of fire do you still exist? No. Nor will you benefit from your deeds. See above.


I spent more than a little time on this. Please quote [i]exact[/i] scripture where it says you'll live forever in a lake of fire. I'm tired of getting generalized questions.

So no, I don't believe we go to hell at all. You seem to have a lack of actual reading of what you're condemning.

[keyplus90]

Birdie not that it would make any change to the way you believe but still here is a verse from Quran (of course there are many Hadiths as well).

Quran 11:106. Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:

Quran 11:107. They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth.

According to scholars “except as thy lord willeth” is for the people who did believe in God as one but committed serious crimes or sins against humanity.

[mike11111]

FAO Birdie (though it will fall on stony ground), Matt. 22 vv35 - 40.
Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[Cowtipper]

I'm pretty sure I already said slavery wasn't immoral.

[Cowtipper]

"And of course, they did – if this were not the case, ancient societies pre-dating Jesus wouldn't have flourished and developed and yet they self evidently did. "

The UK is a textbook example of what morals were like before Christ. Rape, looting, killing, burning. Went on for centuries didn't it? One tribe kills another. Is that your idea of civilization?

[Cowtipper]

I didn't say it was ok, I just said it wasn't immoral.

[mike11111]

Oh dear, Cowtipper, you are feeding grist to the atheists' mill. It won't be long before someone points out that rape, looting and burning were rather more prevalent in the UK after the introduction of Christianity than before, a proposition I would have great difficulty in refuting.

[Cowtipper]

I'll have to take your word for it because from my perspective Britain has been there has been untold years of history to compare to less than 1400 years of Christianity there. If I'm wrong then I apologize.