jehovas witnesses

[kryptic]

Had a couple of JW's at the door today. One of them, an elderly lady, called a few weeks ago and we had a 'friendly' discusion then about the origins of the universe etc. However, not been scientifically minded, I wasnt entirely to refute what she was saying. Today, however, she (and her friend) started on the old 'evolution is just a theory' argument and the 'scientists think that we evolved from monkeys' argument, both of which I could quickly debunk. However, when I asked if they had ever read any Richard Dawkins material (I have) they asked who Richard Dawkins was??? The mind boggles. Probably the most famous creationist debunker on the planet and they had NEVER heard of him??...they asked if I meant HAWKINS???
No doubt they will be back again in the next week or so (particularly as I am always friendly to these self deluded folk... no need to be hostile towards the deluded).
Has anyone got any good questions that I could ask them (particularly re: evolution/creationism) that might make them think for themselves a little bit rather than reading the rubbish that they have to read in their magazines. (they gave me a magazine today, devoted to creationism)
It doesnt have to be the creation/evolution angle, anything that might make them think a little would be helpful.
(as I have a friend who is of the 'born again' variety, it could be usefull for him as well)
Thanks...

[mike11111]

"Jehovah never appears in any Hebrew scripts at all."
This is because it was considered blasphemy to depict or utter the name of the Most High, to which the underposted eloquently testifies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI

[beso]

So where do the JWs get the idea His name is Jehovah?

[mike11111]

Actually the name is in the Bible. I am no expert, but I believe that Hebrew was written originally with consonants only, the reader supplying the vowels as he went along. The consonants were Y(J) HW(V)H, which is why you see various interpretations, such as Yahwey or Jehovah.

[mike11111]

... should be Yahweh.

[boxtops]

I think you're right Mike - I read that this is why the scribes had to be so careful when transcribing the Torah, a word without vowels could be given several meanings in different contexts.

[mike11111]

There is an American who posts on here from time to time who always refers to Jesus as "Yeshua". Not quite sure what the point is. Reminds me of my schoolday Latin lessons when the master would round on me in fury if I accidentally pronounced Cicero as "Sisero" instead of "Kikero".

[tweaker]

Mike11111,

Yes.

Jehovah is also a late medieval age name, penned in 1536 AD I believe. Although YHWH, when you look at classic Greek, J is also Y so 'Yod Heh Vah Heh' translated over in English sound like 'Jehovah'. An easy mistake—if you are only limited to certain sources. The Masoretes added vowels. But the preferred Vulgate uses Lord, God, and the like.

[tweaker]

Mike11111,

Jesus holds the same principle. Although throughout the NT it's spelt the same in all books. Koine Greek.

[mike11111]

Oh dear. I've just realised that I have uttered the names of Yahweh AND Jehovah! Reckon I'm due a good stoning!

[tweaker]

Mike11111,

Don't worry! The "proper" name of God has been lost for Millenia. Fret not! You may as well call him Bob.

[mike11111]

I have my koine new testament beside me as I speak, "Ἰησοῦς" everywhere.

[tweaker]

That would be Latin, translated over from Koine for Jesus.

[tweaker]

Sorry, Hebrew! A more later tongue.

[mike11111]

Now you are confusing me! I thought that Ἰησοῦς was Greek!

[tweaker]

Yes it is. Ἰησοῦς - Jesus in Koine Greek, Joshua and variant spellings in Latin, Hebrew, and possibly Aramaic. Sorry!

[tweaker]

Mike11111,

I need to go now. Off to Kingdom hall for some abusive shouting as they come out! I'll probably spend the night in jail, so I'll see you in future threads!

Have a great day Mike. Good to chat.

[mike11111]

To get back on track, it would be interesting to know how many JWs are refugees from other Christian creeds and how many have been converted from atheism. I suspect that the latter provides most of their adherents. My latest encounter with JWs was way back in 1983 when a girl in my class was not allowed to attend the year group Xmas party, instead having to sit outside the Head's office reading "improving" literature till the bell rang for the end of the official school day. All her friends were having a great time in the school hall. Almost broke my heart, and I'm not a softie.

[Khandro]

So mike, Original Hebrew (with D.I.Y. vowels) was a forerunner of text messaging ?

[mike11111]

Do not shout at them. They are filled with the best of intentions, albeit seriously misguided. If the other Christian denominations had half their zeal the world might be a better place.

[mike11111]

Actually, Khandro, yes!