Alzheimers..........

[naomi24]

....surely the saddest and cruellest of afflictions, and often suffered by the gentlest and kindest people. How does religion justify that?

[DTCwordfan]

How about this for Alzheimers.

I'll die away, oh Thank All, I'll die away
When I die, the vestal virgins by and by, I'll laugh away

Some bright morning when this Alzheimer's over, I'll die away
To a land in a crematorium, I'll die away

When the shadows of this life have gone, I'll die away
Like a bird from these prison walls I'll sie, I'll die away
I'll die away, oh I'm dying now, I'll die away
When I die, hallelujah by and by, I'll fly away

Oh if and can I remember when we meet, I'll die away
No more cold iron shackles on my feet, I'll die away

I'll die away, oh glory, I'll die away
When I die, hallelujah by and by, I'll die away

Just a few more weary days and then, I'll die away
To the land of worms that never end, I'll die away

I'll die away, oh glory, I'll dieaway
When I die, Thank God I'm outta here, I'll die away

[sith123]

no naomi, i was merely answering what you wanted, i mean, after all, thats what you wanted to hear wasnt it? that all muslims are like this? and you still havent answered my question about what did i say that was shocking? nothing really. i havent said anything rude to women, oh yeah, but of course, im a muslim, so thats a good enough explanation for you naomi.

[naomi24]

Sith, please don't insult my intelligence. I've been trying to help you.

[sith123]

i know, and you can help me by telling me what i said that was shocking, please explain?

[jomifl]

Sith, there are some issues that are of particular sensitivity to women. You are unlikely to have come to understand these from studying the misogynistic writings in the Koran and not associating with women. You need to get out more.

[sith123]

jomifl, who are you to judge that i dont get out more, i do, and i am still wandering what i even said that was offensive, i said that women are more respected didnt i? so how is this shocking? islam respected women long before everyone else gave them rights. In england, they only got rights in around 1918, just after the war, the same as america. However, theses 2 countries tell us to respect women more. To me this is hypocritical as we started it long before they did. Also i do know about women, i am married.

so all i have now is these 2 things.

1: jomifl, dont judge me. i ma married, i have associated with women before and do get out.

2: to naomi, i am sorry if i offended you in any way, i did not mean to, if you read back on my comment you should be able to see i did not say anything against women, point me out if i am wrong.

[naomi24]

Sith, thank you for the apology, but it's clear you can't see that by saying women must stay at home and look after the children you are insulting each and every one of them. If a woman wants an education and a career, why shouldn't she be able to choose that path without reference to any man? Why should he have the right to decide what her life will be? It's a fallacy to say that women are respected within the version of Islam you're talking about. They're not. They're nothing more than a chattel, a possession, a baby-making machine, and they are expected to do a man's bidding - even if that means marrying men they've never met, spending their lives hidden from the world under swathes of cloth, and going without medical treatment if there isn't a female doctor available to provide it. They are not even deemed capable of teaching anyone but children. You were fortunate enough to be born and raised in one of the most liberal and socially aware countries in the world, and yet you throw that away without a second thought, choosing instead to follow a backward religion that embraces a culture emanating from the dark ages. If you claim that women within Islam are so highly respected, why say you count your lucky stars that you're not one of them?

[sith123]

because i was playing along with what you were saying, like you normally do to me. its called sarcasm. i dont decide if i am a women or not. Also some of the things you said are not totally correct. Its down to culture as well, for example in pakistan a lot of men meet there wives before marriage. i knew my wife for ages, she was my girlfriend before i became Muslim and has become Muslim herself by her own choice. i did not force her. yes, some countries and culture do do that, but not all.

[starone]

Well said Naomi and very well thought out. It's time women were recognised as human beings.

[sith123]

i do recognise women as human beings.

[boxtops]

It's about time this discussion about women in Islam moved to a new thread, IMO - it's gone far away from its original heading of Alzheimer's.

[naomi24]

Thanks Starbuck.

Sith, that's no answer.

//some countries and culture do do that, but not all. //

So what about the rest? Shall we ignore them? And don't tell me it's culture. Your culture is founded on your religion.

[naomi24]

Boxy, if you want a new thread, perhaps you'd like to start one.

[sith123]

again naomi, all you can do is criticise others. did i say ignore them? no, its just you saying that. whatever i say i am sure you are going to say something against it because that is what you enjoy naomi. you dont have to admit it. culture is based on religion or vice versa but its also down to choice. ill leave it there. i respect women. thats all im saying.

[naomi24]

Sith, where criticism is warranted, I criticise - and for reasons that are obvious to any rational human being, your religion warrants it. If the truth doesn't suit your sensibilities, or those of the superstitious men who are filling your head with archaic nonsense, then so be it.

[jomifl]

Sith, women may have belatedly got the vote in Britain after WWII but they had they right not to be stoned to death, before Islam was invented.

[sith123]

yeah, instead before islam children who were girls were buries alive for no reason. islam stopped that when it was revealed. stoning to death happens to anyone jomifl, its called punishment. theres a reason for it. But we stopped some of the senseless acts like killing girl children and all that, but of course jom, you wouldnt want to talk about that would you?

[RATTER15]

>>>stoning to death happens to anyone jomifl, its called punishment.<<<

Its called bloody barbaric, savage and sick!!!!

and you condone this by being a Muslim. absolutely sick in the head!!!!

[naomi24]

Sith, I'm sure Jom has no objection to talking about it, and neither do I.

So once again we're talking about women! What a coincidence! I've rarely heard such apologist twaddle in my life! Do you actually realise what you're saying? So Islam stopped burying girls alive! Well, bully for Islam! Islam is full of self-praise, but why that is remains a mystery to me. What a pity it doesn't make more of an effort to drag itself further out of the dark ages where it continues to languish. The Islam of today shames its past.

//It's called punishment and there's a reason for it //

What, like stoning to death a teenage girl for being seen with a boy from the wrong sect? (I had intended posting a video link here, but it doesn't make for pleasant viewing).

That is what happens within your religion Sith, along with forced marriages - often involving children - beheadings, the removal of limbs, female subjugation and mutilation, and honour killings - although what's 'honourable' about such killings I've yet to discover. Now, you may say all of that only applies to other countries, but it doesn't because people with such mindsets are now living right here, in our midst - and you have allowed them to indoctrinate you.

//But we stopped some of the senseless acts//

Only some? Well, you clearly realise that the others still take place, but nevertheless you accept it. All of the things I've listed above, including stoning to death as a 'punishment' does not happen to anyone, as you claim. It only happens in backward societies. The people you are listening to come here for a better life, but nevertheless they insist upon dragging their antiquated culture with them and spreading it to any gullible mind they come across. And you, born into a free society, willingly abandon that along with your intellect in favour of an evil philosophy that any civilised person would wish to eradicate. This is not worshipping Allah, Sith - this is man's brutal inhumanity to man (and more usually to women) - and the distorted justification for it is found in abundance within your literature, which is why it continues. Where is your brain? Where is your common sense?

[jomifl]

Sith , I am quite happy to discuss the brutal practices sanctioned by a cruel and vindictive religion. Perhaps you should start a thread on the subject.Where would you like to start? Would I be right in thinking that you approve of practices which are illegal in civilised countries, such as stoning to death, honour killings, disfigurement with acid, genital mutilation, rape within marriage? Be honest, I'm sure your god wouldn't think less of you for it.