The K M Links Game - June 2024 Week 2
Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
Atheist Literature
152 Answers
Do any of the religious people here ever read books written by atheist authors such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris? If ‘yes’, what have you read and what are your thoughts - and if ‘no’ why not?
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This is probably true Sith. It's not really conversion though is it? It's not swapping your football team support, it's deciding you don't believe in football at all and that maybe football's claimed contributions to culture don't outweigh the damages done in the name of football (and anyone who has watched the MOTD punditry will know football has a lot to answer for!).
Also, I speak with some authority on the matter of God... as I am one: http://www.theanswerb.../Question1066858.html
We're cult currently, but once we've been properly persecuted we might be able to take on a proper religious label.
We're cult currently, but once we've been properly persecuted we might be able to take on a proper religious label.
Sandy, //The evidence that helped set Doubting Thomas back on the straight and narrow would even be twisted to suit their argument.//
You need to read the book we discussed here. :o)
http://www.theanswerb.../Question1106005.html
You need to read the book we discussed here. :o)
http://www.theanswerb.../Question1106005.html
Sith -
You appear to have misunderstood the entirety of my post (00:43 Thu 16th Feb 2012). You make a number of accusations which I feel that I should respond to.
You said, “... most pathetically you try to attempt to make it look like i said you do not work for living...”. No, that's not was I said. I was highlighting the fact that you claimed to know I work for a living when you knew no such thing at the time you posted your statement. What I was saying is that you seem to like to claim that you know things that you clearly do not.
You further say, “... you say i have not read those books. how do you know that?”. Please re-read my earlier post for clarification.
You also say, “... You say that i do not believe in genes... what makes you think that a muslim does not believe in this [genes] at all?”. Again, I didn't say that and I do not believe that. I was commenting on your rather peculiar statement, “.... we muslims do believe in genes...”. My comment was an ironic statement. Saying Muslims 'believe' in genes is as pointless as saying that Muslims believe in viruses.
You appear to have misunderstood the entirety of my post (00:43 Thu 16th Feb 2012). You make a number of accusations which I feel that I should respond to.
You said, “... most pathetically you try to attempt to make it look like i said you do not work for living...”. No, that's not was I said. I was highlighting the fact that you claimed to know I work for a living when you knew no such thing at the time you posted your statement. What I was saying is that you seem to like to claim that you know things that you clearly do not.
You further say, “... you say i have not read those books. how do you know that?”. Please re-read my earlier post for clarification.
You also say, “... You say that i do not believe in genes... what makes you think that a muslim does not believe in this [genes] at all?”. Again, I didn't say that and I do not believe that. I was commenting on your rather peculiar statement, “.... we muslims do believe in genes...”. My comment was an ironic statement. Saying Muslims 'believe' in genes is as pointless as saying that Muslims believe in viruses.
Sith - “... Yes i have watched it. I have no problem with it but am sticking to my own beliefs...”
No one was attempting to make you change your beliefs. What myself and others are doing is pointing out erroneous beliefs such as – humans evolved from monkeys (they didn't) and evolution cannot explain the development of complex eyes (it can and it does). If you chose not to accept these explanations, that's obviously up to you.
No one was attempting to make you change your beliefs. What myself and others are doing is pointing out erroneous beliefs such as – humans evolved from monkeys (they didn't) and evolution cannot explain the development of complex eyes (it can and it does). If you chose not to accept these explanations, that's obviously up to you.
Crisis of faith? Most atheists have had that, since most of us were brought up in some faith or other, to a greater or lesser degree!
But religious people do speak of a crisis of faith. What do they mean by that? It sounds like ours viz. something happens which tends to prove the illogicality of the belief. Why should you continue to believe what you've been taught or come to believe if the evidence now disproves it, or casts such doubt upon it that it no longer seems likely, or that observation shows it inconsistent ? We don't do it in other areas of life, or we hope not to. (All areas of knowledge contain examples of people who stubbornly maintained disproved theories)
But religious people do speak of a crisis of faith. What do they mean by that? It sounds like ours viz. something happens which tends to prove the illogicality of the belief. Why should you continue to believe what you've been taught or come to believe if the evidence now disproves it, or casts such doubt upon it that it no longer seems likely, or that observation shows it inconsistent ? We don't do it in other areas of life, or we hope not to. (All areas of knowledge contain examples of people who stubbornly maintained disproved theories)
AB Editor - “... It's the problem with these debates because ultimately neither side (and no shade of conviction of either side) can hold their belief and actually have respect for the "opposing" belief...”
This debate has ultimately been about evolution. It is one of the most proven scientific theories in existence. When those who oppose evolution make simplistic statements about it and question its validity, it is incumbent upon those of us who subscribe to the scientific proofs to point out where their beliefs are contradicted by the physical evidence.
These kinds of debates will always become heated because they are important. This is par for the course for such subjects. Unless someone is needlessly and wantonly insulted (such as Keyplus calling me a dementia patient, for example) I don't see the need for the editors of AB to call for order when order hasn't been lost.
This debate has ultimately been about evolution. It is one of the most proven scientific theories in existence. When those who oppose evolution make simplistic statements about it and question its validity, it is incumbent upon those of us who subscribe to the scientific proofs to point out where their beliefs are contradicted by the physical evidence.
These kinds of debates will always become heated because they are important. This is par for the course for such subjects. Unless someone is needlessly and wantonly insulted (such as Keyplus calling me a dementia patient, for example) I don't see the need for the editors of AB to call for order when order hasn't been lost.
Sith, You say that you 'believe' in evolution, OK I will take that to mean that you accept it as a theory that explains how life has changed over time. However you cannot really understand it if you think that it is managed or influenced by god. Now we atheists are often challenged to explain why we think things work the way they do, so since you have chosen to involve god in evolution, perhaps you would care to explain what part god plays in the process. No cop outs please , I would like a proper answer otherwise I will have to assume that you haven't got one.
I expect god had is own mysterious reasons for letting Naomi drift, we shouldn't question them, it would be arrogant to even think of it. I can only think that he saw that his flock was falling into smug complacency and was in danger of becoming vain and arrogant so it needed to be made to question it's assumptions. This is only hypothetical as I am an atheist, but I do try to see things from the viewpoint of the believer.
Sith - “...islam does believe in evolution...”
I find your pronouncements on what 'Islam' does and does not believe rather arrogant. By making the above statement and others (such as, “... muslims do believe in genes...”) you are egregiously claiming to speak for every Muslim on Earth. You do not speak for all Muslims and I think you are ill-advised in making these sweeping statements. I am an atheist and I would never dream of speaking for all atheists. I speak for myself and no one else.
The website, Understanding Islam:
http://www.understand...slam-refute-evolution
… has a quite different opinion on this matter. They state that, “... if 'evolution' implies that man is actually an evolved form of a certain other creature [which Darwins' Theory of Evolution does imply], then Islam does not affirm such a standpoint...”. The authors of 'Understanding Islam' do not share your opinion that all Muslims believe in evolution – at least when Homosapiens are brought into the equation.
Do you concur with the above website's understanding of evolution? That is, do you believe that animals adapt and evolve to their changing environments over multiple generations but human beings are not subject to evolutionary change since they were created in perfect form by God?
I find your pronouncements on what 'Islam' does and does not believe rather arrogant. By making the above statement and others (such as, “... muslims do believe in genes...”) you are egregiously claiming to speak for every Muslim on Earth. You do not speak for all Muslims and I think you are ill-advised in making these sweeping statements. I am an atheist and I would never dream of speaking for all atheists. I speak for myself and no one else.
The website, Understanding Islam:
http://www.understand...slam-refute-evolution
… has a quite different opinion on this matter. They state that, “... if 'evolution' implies that man is actually an evolved form of a certain other creature [which Darwins' Theory of Evolution does imply], then Islam does not affirm such a standpoint...”. The authors of 'Understanding Islam' do not share your opinion that all Muslims believe in evolution – at least when Homosapiens are brought into the equation.
Do you concur with the above website's understanding of evolution? That is, do you believe that animals adapt and evolve to their changing environments over multiple generations but human beings are not subject to evolutionary change since they were created in perfect form by God?
