If God really existed

[wildwood]

as depicted in the bibble and is good to all Men, would it then not be sinful for Religion to build costly opulent places of worship when just a stable or even an open field would be sufficient to gather? The money saved could be used to help those less fortunate.

[vulcan]

This can not, in all honesty be called a barn.
http://norfolk-quaker.../norwich_gl_mh-01.jpg

[FredPuli43]

True, Vulcan, that picture is not of a barn. It's a Meeting House; whether it was built as one or is another building adapted to that use is immaterial; the point being that inside and out it is plain and the room for meetings is too. Quakers have only a table with a bible in their meetings. They don't have priests, hymns or anything else to distract them, and certainly no ornament.

[vulcan]

Fair enough Fred, it's a pity the Catholics and others couldn't be so frugal.

World's Biggest Stock Broker
The Catholic Church, therefore, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The 'Wall Street Journal' said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.

Therefore, the Vatican was, and still is, the most redoubtable wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. No one knows for certain how much the Catholic Church was, or is worth in terms of dollars and other currencies, not even the pope himself.

That is the true situation borne out by a Vatican official who, when asked to make a guess at the Vatican's wealth today, replied very tellingly, "Only God knows."

by Avro Manhattan

Source: 'Battle Cry', September/October 1986

[FredPuli43]

Ah well, the Catholic Church has a lot of priests' salaries to pay, and the upkeep of all those ornamented churches and cathedrals and, we may add, the rather lesser costs and damages to those who suffered abuse and any incidental costs in trying to protect the guilty and cover up their offences.

[solvitquick]

Hey guys and dolls, in my submissions I have condemned ALL established churches as massive money-worshipping religious organisations taking advantage of their gullible congregations in respect of a big Santa Claus in the sky. Of course I cited the Christian big two, as some are richer than others. I could of course have included Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism etc., but I notice some are concentrating on the Vatican (correct as an classic and horrific example). However IF THIS DEBATE TURNS INTO A PURE ANTI-CATHOLIC CRUSADE then we drift away from the key point and move towards a "this church is better than that one" argument. No established religion is exempt from total condemnation as money-making corporations so let's keep it that way. The apparently small and simple Quakers can maybe left out as small-fry except for their gullibity. I understand the original question concerned Churches, Cathedrals, Mosques and their associated rich paraphenalia and ornamentation. I and others have, rightly I think, gone further into the origins and purpose of this wealth, but let's keep it general please.

[thejudderman]

God is as about as real as Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy! Actually, Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy are more believable, they used to leave me suprises!

[solvitquick]

Dear Judderman, I am pleased that you find Santa Claus believable because he and the Tooth Fairy left you nice presents. Unfortunately, believers or non-believers in what I have termed Santa Claus In The Sky (i.e. god) can wake up any day and find Santa has left us a present such as cancer, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, leprosy, asthma, Parkinson's disease, starvation or many other goodies. If we ask the Christian Established Religions "why?" they will probably say because we were born in original sin. I think this pap goes back to the fairy-tale of Adam and Eve so you should blame an apple. Non-believers like me are easily dealt with: it's because of non-belief. I do not know what the other Religious Business Corporations use as a scam to explain the gifts "He" leaves us.

[MASS1961]

I read all your points and respect ALL you opinions.
However, if I can't see it, I can't believe it.
I believe I am a decent, morally good person, that's enough for me.

[solvitquick]

Yup, me too MASS1961.

[naomi24]

Solvitquick, //let's keep it general please.//

You seem to be attempting to pull the reins here, but the idea is that you post your thoughts and other people post theirs - whatever they may be.

[wildwood]

Anyone who wants to see what I mean may want to image google "mosque" or "temple" or "church".

[naomi24]

Wildwood, I know what you mean - and I think others here are right. The Vatican museum, for example, tells its own story.

//would it then not be sinful for Religion to build costly opulent places of worship//

Bearing in mind the messages of Jesus, for Christians it ought to be a complete travesty - but oddly enough, most of them don't see it that way.

[jomifl]

Last year I saw a news item showing the pope on his balcony preaching to the masses. His helper was wearing a gold rolex watch. Now I rely on a chromium plated brass watch bought at Argos. How many cases of blindness in African children could be cured by using the money that bought tht watch for a humane purpose rather than massaging the vanity of the pope and his entourage. We know that waiting for god to cure anything could result in a very long wait.

[naomi24]

Expensive watches appear to be de rigueur among the religious fraternity. See this link that LazyGun posted on another thread.

http://www.nytimes.co...s-sleeve.html?_r=4&hp

[vulcan]

naomi, that link didn't come up, is this the story ?
http://now.msn.com/no...church-deception.aspx

[naomi24]

Vulcan, I've just tried it and it works for me - but yes, it is that story.

[sandyRoe]

John 11:55 deals effectively with the question of expensive wristwatches.
http://dailyexegesis....ou-always-but-me.html

[naomi24]

Jesus they ain't!

Sandy, where have you been? Are you ok?

[micmak]

Emmerdale tonight.

Son to vicar...Is the Easter bunny real?

Vicar to son....Well some people think so.

Son to vicar..... a bit like god then.

[jomifl]

Naomi, I discovered LG's post re. consecrated timepieces after my post about catholic bling. Perhaps we should have a competion to find the best or most outrageous example of religious bling. I can understand that if one inhabits a world of gold furnishings, gold clothing and gold tableware it would be easy to overlook something as insignificant as a gold rolex. Of course it may be that rolex is sponsoring the papal team strip or the 'blessing of condoms for the world' charity.