Why Didn't God Save His Son?

[modeller]

I was asked this question by a theist who was looking for some theological answer. He was rather put out when I said ' He couldn't because he didn't want to be accused of nepotism .'

[naomi24]

OG, if we assume that God is restricted by anything at all, then we cannot claim him to be omnipotent.

[andy-hughes]

Octavius - you make a fair point.

I do wonder how Christians - including my wife, reconcile the evil that exists second by second in a world supposdly looked after by a loving God.

I have no such problem, evil exists because Man exists.

Not every Christian is a bigotted arrogant pompous preacher by any means, but they all to a man and woman have to try and balance their faith in a loving God (unseen) against the endless evidence and proof of evil (seen far too much!)

It has to make life difficult for them - in my view, more difficult than it needs to be.

[berniecuddles]

probably out drinking all the wine he kept making lol!!

[Octavius]

"they all to a man and woman have to try and balance their faith in a loving God (unseen) against the endless evidence and proof of evil (seen far too much!)"

Yes, and much like you and others, they do this through their own humanity against the backdrop of their faith. Evil exists in the world for all of us, we all deal with it in different ways.

[andy-hughes]

Octavius - that just doesn't cut it.

To say that Christians simply shrug their shoulders and effectively say "Sh*t happens ..." does not square with a belief in a loving and caring God.

I can say that with impunity, because I have no God letting evil triumph in the world to worry about.

Such simple acceptance is denied any Christian worthy of the name who must constantly try and explain, to him or herself if to no-one else, how the God they worship allows innocents to die second by second in the world He created.

[Old_Geezer]

If that is the case Naomi then I'm unsure how much common ground there is to discuss the subject at all. Before tackling why this or that is the case I think one needs to understand why anything at all needs to be.

Why should one care about the reasons behind prolonging the life of a single individual, when there is nothing obviously wrong with there being nothing (except for God) in existence in the first place ? Until we know the higher goal and why it is important we are stymied.

[andy-hughes]

There you go naomi - all clear! (?!!!)

[Octavius]

"how the God they worship allows innocents to die second by second in the world He created."

Andy, the honest answer is I don't know. But rather than ponder on it, my position on the empathy spectrum prompts me to at least try and do something about it within my capabilities. Assuming I meet God, you can be sure it'll be one of the first questions I ask him.

[andy-hughes]

Octavous - my position on the empathy spectrum allows me to do the same - albeit from a different perspective.

I have to say that your simple honesty is entirel refreshing, coming as it does like a beacon of light in a fog of cut-and-pasted doggerel which usually infest debates like this.

I assure you if I meet God, that will be one of several searching questions i will be wishing to put to Him - but I do not expect that scenario to actually come to fruition!

[goodlife]

A true believer in the Bible knows the real reason for living on and surviving to see bright hope come true. No longer does life seem humdrum, aimless, leading nowhere but to a “dead end.” They live for the approaching righteous new world.


As can be seen down through the centuries people have believed fantastic things about God and his purposes. They have conjured up myriads of gods and related beliefs. Yet the average person today would have difficulty naming even a few of the ancient gods and what they stood for. They have vanished with time because such existed in the imagination only.

The false gods of today that do not exist in actuality will likewise pass away in time. Only the Almighty God Jehovah and his purposes have remained consistent, unchangeable, reliable.

[modeller]

May I digress a moment .? Have you read Michael Shermers book :
'The Believing Brain ' ? It deals with the way the brain deals with every fact and situation through the lens of initial belief. Whatever the belief e,g
political or religious the brain turns everything to support that belief.
You can see this in action every day in parliament.
Another example:
I have just read 'Just Love' by Ben Cooper in which every atrocity ,threat, injustice, or punishment meted out by God . Are in fact justified and examples of God's Love. From drowning the world to human sacrifice
God is Good.

[andy-hughes]

goodlife - "The false gods of today that do not exist in actuality will likewise pass away in time. Only the Almighty God Jehovah and his purposes have remained consistent, unchangeable, reliable."

I think Buddah and Allah might give you an argument there!

[Octavius]

"Yet the average person today would have difficulty naming even a few of the ancient gods and what they stood for."

Goodlife, are you not merely espousing your own brand of ancient heresy in the form of gnosticism?

[andy-hughes]

goodlife - I am average - Thor, Odin, Hera, Loki, Apollo, Venus, Cupid, Aphrodite, Diana, Minerva, Poseidon, Pan ...

don't confuse lack of belief with a lack of education.

[andy-hughes]

goodlife - "Only the Almighty God Jehovah and his purposes have remained consistent, unchangeable, reliable."

I am sure there are anthropologists who can advise of primitive tribes who have lived in the jungles of this world and worshiped the sun for generations that can be traced back to the dawn of time, thousands of years before your JW's appeared.

Just because you would like your God to be the biggest and best and longest workshiped does not make it so.

[atalanta]

Let's go right back to the crucifixion. Let's give it some clear thought. Jesus is supposed to have known that the crucifixion was not the end, that he would be resurrected, come back to life, and end up in heaven. Crucifixion is a nasty way to go, but women can have a far worse time in childbirth, especially if the baby gets stuck. So he put up with some pain for some hours, but not fear, since he knew it was going to be alright. The labouring mother is in agony and dread for many days, and they both eventually die. This happens every day. Which one is the tragedy ?

[modeller]

The point is Jesus himself couldn't answer the OP. Although he was in on the plot , he knew how and why he was going to die.

After suffering for hours he cried out. :
My God , my God , why have you forsaken me ?

[naomi24]

OG, //If that is the case [that God is restricted] Naomi then I'm unsure how much common ground there is to discuss the subject at all.//

If we are to discuss the nature of God, we must discuss it from the point of view of religion because that’s where the concept of God arises, that is the only common ground, and religion tells us that God is omnipotent. Therefore, we have no alternative but to assume (for the sake of discussion) that he is omnipotent. If we suppose that he is restricted in any way, it follows that he cannot be omnipotent, and we then move into the territory of discussing a personal God – a product of our own imaginations – and not the fellow religion tells us exists.

//Before tackling why this or that is the case I think one needs to understand why anything at all needs to be.//

Science has a pretty good explanation for that, but since we’re talking about God, it is a question that cannot be answered. I have no idea why God would have wanted to create anything at all, and less still why he would have wanted to impose misery, pain, and guilt upon mankind. I cannot imagine something as powerful and as wise as this God is reputed to be, being so utterly cruel, vengeful – and narcissistic.

[modeller]

If Jesus is also God or part of , why would he be talking to himself :
My God , my God , why have you forsaken me ?

If he was the son , why didn't he say Father , Father .........................?

[naomi24]

Modeller, no one heard what Jesus said in his last hours - at least no one who took the trouble to record it. His disciples scooted - and the women watched from a distance. All of this was written long after the event - by people who weren't there.