Why Didn't God Save His Son?

[modeller]

I was asked this question by a theist who was looking for some theological answer. He was rather put out when I said ' He couldn't because he didn't want to be accused of nepotism .'

[jomifl]

GL, I am replying to one...Hi,

[Old_Geezer]

"God sacrificed Himself, to Himself, to save us, from Himself."

Whilst maybe I ought not speak for others, I suspect believers would claim the person quoted has 'the wrong end of the stick'.

Whilst a deity might be omnipotent they would presumably also have a perfect view of morality and what is right and wrong. So whilst theoretically they could choose to do anything, they are limited by their own understanding that some things must be done and others avoided.

It follows that the eternity in some kind of Hell must be assumed to be inevitable under these conditions, so the deity would not be saving folk from itself, but saving them from the inevitable result of their own actions.

As for sacrificing themselves, well every child holds the essence of their parents. It doesn't follow that they are not separate also. Or one could view it as sacrificing a hand to save the body maybe. Not a large stumbling point.

[naomi24]

OG, // "God sacrificed Himself, to Himself, to save us, from Himself." ………. It follows that the eternity in some kind of Hell must be assumed to be inevitable under these conditions, so the deity would not be saving folk from itself, but saving them from the inevitable result of their own actions.//

The point there is that if God is omnipotent, Hell need not be the inevitable destination of the ‘sinner’ (I detest that word). An omnipotent god could realise any plan that took his fancy, so in this instance we have to assume that the concept of Hell rather appealed to him – and still does – allegedly – so the quote is accurate.

[mibn2cweus]

I often pause to wonder what kinds of things these people who seek 'God's' forgiveness might have done to believe that 'Hell' is the destination they rightfully deserve? :o/

[naomi24]

Since the definition of ‘sin’ is ‘’the act of violating God's will’, there’s quite a lot to choose from. ;o)

[Octavius]

OG, from the Bible one would consider it mortal suffering by a deity to demonstrate humanity amongst men and the ability for atonement and ultimately to be seated in heaven. Thus, God showed humans via Jesus - in the ultimate memorable sacrifice - that it could be achieved by humans.

[weecalf]

The first man was a woman Adam a dam get it Im to good for this place

[beso]

Octavius //Thus, God showed humans via Jesus - in the ultimate memorable sacrifice - that it could be achieved by humans.//

And the church followed the example by inflicting suffering on those who they considered has sinned. Hence the Inquisition.

It is all part of the Abrahamic death cult. Sick at the core.

Islam has conversion by the sword.

[andy-hughes]

On past experience naomi - none at all!

[naomi24]

Andy, sorry, not with you?

[andy-hughes]

Hi naomi, i was replying to this post -

"Goodlife, the question is 'Why Didn't God Save His Son?'.

Any chance of you attempting to answer that rather than preaching?"

I missed the last page of responses, which explains why you wondered what I was on about!

[naomi24]

Andy, oh I see. Thanks for clarifying. :o)

[andy-hughes]

My pleasure naomi.

I have noticed that goodlife is strictly 'transmit and no receive' - and yet he lectures others on their lack of understanding.

It must be a wonderful existance, knowing that you are utterly right, and everyone else is utterly wrong.

Or maybe not ...

[vulcan42]

I think "maybe not" andy, it must be terribly frustrating to be perfect.

[Octavius]

"And the church followed the example by inflicting suffering on those who they considered has sinned. Hence the Inquisition."

Around the same time Genghis Khan and his people were busy killing millions all over Asia. Yes, man has inflicted terrible atrocities on man in the name of their cause or ego -particularly in the middle ages.

[mibn2cweus]

^ Unfortunate that the church was too busy burning non-believers to pursue a genuine threat to humanity.

[andy-hughes]

It's interesting isn't it.

For example, goodlife states that he believes there is a God, I state that I believe there is not.

If you extrapolate that to entire swathes of the earth's popluation you have the billions of deaths and suffering people in the name of religion, or anti-religion.

But it still comes down to the basic beliefs of goodlife and I, as examples of individual positions - he believes, i do not, but neither of us has a shred of evidence to back our views.

Not a problem for me - there is no pressure on me what ever to prove a 'non-existence', wheras goodlife is compelled to cut-and-paste vast tracts of dogma on a weekly basis to bolster his position.

And at 'the end' - what will happen?

Either, as goodlife believes, there is a God, and he is vindicated, for all his soulsearching and handwringing and hard work living among non-believers. I simply acknowledge my sins and enter the world of his loving and forgiving God for all eternity.

Or, as I believe, there is nothing at all, in which case neither of us will know anyway.

So the difference in our time on earth is - I live a far less stressful life pushing that rock up that hill all the time, and I am enjoying the sunshine.

Who'd be a Christian from choice?

[Old_Geezer]

A God obliged by what they know to be the right thing is restricted by that aim to ensure certain things happen even if it would rather the right thing was something different. The fact that it could make another decision in theory doesn't change that. You are implying that God can make another route the right thing to do. I'm unsure that should be considered part of omnipotence as that way lies madness and nothing is necessary to bring into existence.

[andy-hughes]

I am sure what you say may make sense to a believer OG, but frankly, having read it three times, it's gobbledeygook to me!!!

[Octavius]

"^ Unfortunate that the church was too busy burning non-believers to pursue a genuine threat to humanity."

Lol, yes, and the atheists sat in roadside taverns drinking ale and bemoaning everyones inadequacies and inaction except their own?

Andy - what you are realy saying is would you prefer goodlifes life, or your life, as there is a big difference inbetween. Many Christians don't push rocks up hills and handwring themselves into preaching frenzy. I would hope your wife is an example of such!