Was God An Accessory To Murder?

[modeller]

Taking Genesis at its face value, did God deliberately provoke Cain to such intense anger that he killed Abel.

[eariyam]

Once again Satans input totally overlooked.Yawn yawn ! Alll the atheists will be on shortly.Blaming God for all the evil in the world and at the same time saying that He doesn't exist.Doh ???

[tamborine]

catholicism starts at The New Testament

[naomi24]

eariyam, you misunderstand. The argument from atheists must necessarily take into account the belief of the religious – and if you bring Satan into the equation, the answer to that is if you believe God created everything then it follows that he created Satan too. Therefore, if Satan is responsible for all the evils of the world, then by extension God must ultimately take full responsibility.

[modeller]

I heard a new twist from a minister last night ;
" All the evil in the world including that enacted by God is/may be a part of the great plan for the eternal life of those Christians truly united with Jesus "

He stressed this eternal life is only for those people , truly united as one with Jesus, just saying you are a Christian is not enough. Everyone else irrespective of their beliefs, do not qualify. The key to eternal salvation is the belief and unity with Jesus .

[idiosyncrasy]

Atlanta//God hardened Pharaoh's heart to stop him letting the Israelites leave Egypt. As a result the Egyptian army was wiped out by the return of the water of the Red Sea. I call that mass murder.//

So when the Syrian government turn on their own people - and the US & UK go in to bring down the cruel regime - they should not do it because it will be mass murder?.

If some other cruel regime should come along and decide that the British people need to be brought under the yoke of dictatorship and the authorities send in the troops and anhilate the perpetrators - they will be committing mass murder?

Tell me please - what is the difference?

God was defending his own people from a cruel and sadistic rulership. The Eyptians ill treated the Hebrew slaves, even to the point of killing their babies to stop them from increasing. Pharoah had been given the opportunity to free the Hebrews but he didn't because he was afraid of "losing face" as he was considered a God amongst his own people.

[goodlife]

modeller @ No,knowing Cain’s attitude, the Easy-to-Read Version says - The LORD asked Cain, Why are you angry? Why does your face look sad?

You know that if you do what is right, I will accept you. But if you don’t, sin is ready to attack you. That sin will want to control you, but you must control it.( Genesis 4:7)

God counseled him Before he committed murder

The lesson in this, Jehovah invited Cain to turn to doing good,” but He did not force him to change. Cain chose his own way, and that why the world is like it today.

Cain and Abel have had a similar upbringing, but Cain lacked faith in God. In fact, he manifested the spirit of the original ‘manslayer and father of the lie.’ (John 8:44)

So Cain’s course shows that we all have a choice, that those who choose to separate themselves from God, -1 John 3:11-15. Simple

[idiosyncrasy]

Naomi//if you bring Satan into the equation, the answer to that is if you believe God created everything then it follows that he created Satan too//

Not necessarily. If God created all his creatures will free will - they have the choice which way to go. Satan chose to go his own way, Adam & Eve chose their way and the angels that left Heaven chose to do so.

I am assuming you are a mother (forgive me if I am wrong). You have brought children into this world, if they turn out to be murderers, sadistic, pedophiles or just plain wicked, evil people. Are you responsible? Are you, by extension a wicked, sadistic murderer, etc.? No I am sure you are not - like most decent, honest and hardworking people you endeavour to teach them right from wrong and give them the opportunities to do good. If they choose to go against their background and upbringing then that is their choice, they have used their own free will.

Just as you are an atheist (again assuming), you allow your offspring to choose for themselves which road to take - what ever choice they make will be of their own free will.

[naomi24]

Goodlife, you’re fantasising again, but that aside, I suggest you investigate the meaning of the word ‘love’, because people who truly love do not consider their fellow man to be an 'infestation' upon the earth. Incidentally, I have to wonder why you think the anonymous ‘John’ knew any more about life and death than anyone else.

idiosyncrasy, of all the flawed arguments that are regularly offered in defence of God, the analogy between him as a father and good human parents is probably the weakest. No loving human parent would condemn a child to eternal damnation whatever his/her perceived ‘sin’.

[modeller]

ideosyncrasy // Pharaoh had been given the opportunity to free the Hebrews but he didn't // WRONG ! He did free them ! All 600,000 men plus all their wives , children , ( maybe 1,500,0000 in total ) livestock and supplies for a long journey.
From the Nile to the Red Sea by the shortest route is 100 miles and they had to go a long way round to avoid the Philistines. So how long would they have been on the journey ON FOOT, ? A whole nation on the move ? It could take several weeks and during that time Pharaoh made no attempt to stop them , UNTIL " God suddenly hardened his heart " which caused Pharaoh to change his mind ,and send 600 chariots and men
in pursuit. Once again it was God who decided to drown several thousand
Egptians rather than just letting Israelis go peacefully.

[goodlife]

Naomi do you know what sin is?

You should be glad that there is such a thing as divine love.
But I can see it hard decision for you.

Jesus addressed this issue, shedding light on who should be treated with love. He said: You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you............ (Matthew 5:43-45) simple

modeller@ I see even with the right teaching some are ever learning and never growing up. What is wrong? The Bible says: “The fool multiplies words, but wise men store up knowledge. (Prov. 10:14)

Some people just like to talk they like to talk more than listen. If one spends more time multiplying words than storing up knowledge, such a person may be ever learning but -never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.( Eccl. 10:14)

[NoMercy]

Yes he was. Furthermore I think there is enough evidence for the CPS to make a case.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Idiosyncrasy, a question for you: will there be sin [iafteri] Armageddon in the righteous new world?

[naomi24]

Goodlife, you quote Jesus, but you have no concept of what he was really saying. To use your own words, which you 'multiply' over and over, you’re a sad lot.

[modeller]

Goodlife Are you blind or can't you read the bible ? Ideosyncrasy said Pharoah did NOT free the Israelis . Your bible says he did. So Ideo is WRONG.

ideosyncrasy says // Pharaoh had been given the opportunity to free the Hebrews but he didn't //
WRONG ! He did free them ! All 600,000 men plus all their wives , children.

What part of Exodus don't you understand ? Ex12:31-33-37 Ex13:17

[naomi24]

An amendment to my last post. In retrospect, I believe Goodlife thinks we’re a ‘poor lot’, and not as I said a ‘sad lot’ – my error illustrating the negligible effect of his interminable sermons here.

[idiosyncrasy]

Naomi//No loving human parent would condemn a child to eternal damnation whatever his/her perceived ‘sin’. //

You have completely missed the point. I used the analogy of God & a parent to emphasis the fact that the responsibility for what a person does, rests on him alone and not on anyone else. It had nothing to do with a parent condemning its child to eternal damnation. I am talking of free will.

[idiosyncrasy]

Modeller
//ideosyncrasy says // Pharaoh had been given the opportunity to free the Hebrews but he didn't //
WRONG ! He did free them ! All 600,000 men plus all their wives , children. //
Here we have an example of you only reading what you want to read. Pharaoh was given the opportunity to use his Free Will to release the slaves. He did not. The release came when God force Pharaoh due to his bringing about the Angel of Death and every first born from man to animal was killed. Immediately after the slaves left (together with some of the Egyptians) Pharoah chased after them to bring them back.

[idiosyncrasy]

V-E@ I see that Goodlife aked Naomi "What is sin?" So I put the question to you. What is sin?
If you can tell me what sin is, then I will endeavour to answer you.

[vulcan42]

Sin is to offend against a principle, it doesn't require any interpretation from the bible.

[naomi24]

idiosyncrasy, no, you are missing the point. If God’s actions are contrary to those of a loving human parent, there can be no analogy. If free will comes at a terrible price there are constraints, and hence there is no real free will.

I’ll answer the question ‘what is sin?’ Sin is a transgression against God’s will and therefore it doesn’t exist. Crime does – but sin doesn’t.