Why Is God Not Invincible ?

[modeller]

It is repeatably said in the bible God is invincible . So why does he appear to always fail ?

He failed to defeat Satan and has failed on billions of occasions to defeat evil
throughout history . In fact belief in him is a major cause of evil, in its self.

[vulcan42]

I find it strange that the more committed the theist the more noncommittal their answers.

[grasscarp]

OK Vulcan. If my answer is non committal I will answer Naomi's latest post line by line.

1. "I make no apology for attacking religion – it deserves nothing less"

You think it deserves attacking ok fine. Carry on with doing what makes you happy.

2. –"but unlike you, I can offer a reasoned argument and hence I don’t resort to personal slights."

Reasoned argument – ok - in your own assessment of yourself . You don’t do personal slights –oh really? I have seen you being very personal in your posts and they are sometimes deleted because of their abuse towards other AB members.

3. "I have asked you what it is you want us to respect – a question you have consistently avoided answering."
Yes. I admit I am consistent in not going in to specifics with you because you are way too hostile and confrontational. It is never a discussion. It is an attack (by your own admission - see point one.)

3. "Unless you have something of substance to say, there’s really no point in continually nagging people who disagree with you to shut up – which is what you appear to be doing."

I am hardly “continually nagging”. I only came on this thread to support Scooping’s post when he asked for some respect. He is a relative newcomer here and I think what he said was reasonable

4. "And that leads us directly back to my original question to you – what do you want us to respect?"

I want (though it will never happen) is for you/atheists on here in general, to respect the right of all people to join in the postings in Religion & Spirituality. Nothing more.

[jomifl]

/ I want (though it will never happen) is for you/atheists on here in general, to respect the right of all people to join in the postings in Religion & Spirituality. Nothing more. /
When has anybody challenged your right to post on AB? I suspect never.
When has anybody left your statements unchallenged? hardly ever.
Think about why that is.

[grasscarp]

Jomifl -I don’t understand your question “When has anybody left your statements unchallenged?”
If that is what you meant to say – I agree with you - the answer is never (or hardly ever).
You also say
“When has anybody challenged your right to post on AB? I suspect never.”
Read back through this thread. I have been challenged by name to elaborate, explain, expand etc
If you ask someone for respect you don’t need to say – Respect me because I am a fellow human being, Respect me because I also have a brain and a mind and an opinion and Respect me because I am actually not a piece of dirt stuck to your shoe.
My feeling is that R&S is a battleground. The atheists want to either talk amongst themselves, or find someone holding an alternative view so they can pull their beliefs to pieces.
You will say this is not true but it is a perception which I am not alone in holding which could be the reason Ed had to put a quote on the top of this section saying “Try and be nice to people ……… and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."

[jomifl]

/I have been challenged by name to elaborate, explain, expand etc /. That is not challenging your right to post on AB, that is challenging your point of view. I had credited you with being able to see the difference.

[jomifl]

/I don’t understand your question “When has anybody left your statements unchallenged?”
If that is what you meant to say – I agree with you - the answer is never (or hardly ever). /
What is difficult to understand? by the way you answered the question so presumably understood it. This forum isn't just a platform for people to blow their trumpet, it is a place to test your views and find out how they stand up to scrutiny and criticism.

[grasscarp]

Jomifl - you say this forum isn't just a platform for people to blow their trumpet.
Some seem to think that is exactly what it is. I am not one of them.
and what is all this about challenging anyway? why should dipping your toe in here mean facing a challenge/being asked to justify your beliefs/defend your faith etc.

[jomifl]

Belief is not an absolute, it is a matter of opinion nothing more and since there is nothing to measure a belief against all beliefs are equally valid. However your belief is your belief and if you don't want everybody else (who has a different belief) to disagree with at least part of you beliefs then best keep them to yourself. If however you want to justify your beliefs using logic then the atheists are the ones to help you trim away the irrational,illiogical and the plain incredible. It is a thankless path because at the end you will just be left back at the start ...with your beliefs.

[grasscarp]

So true Jomifl - all of what you say!
"........... to disagree with at least part of you beliefs then best keep them to yourself."
Well that is what I do, and then I get told I must define them.
Cant win.

[jomifl]

Grasscarp, why define them? and to whom? You don't have to justify your beliefs to anyone.

[mibn2cweus]

Any 'god' that requires handling with kid gloves is not worthy of the title.

[jomifl]

Mibs, kid gloves made from the skin of a kid that hasn't been seethed in it's mother's milk, or any old kid gloves? It is important to get this god handling right as the consequences could be grave, or even hellish..

[mibn2cweus]

So it would seem ;o)

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, what an extraordinary post. My sins, it appears, are great indeed – and you so vocal in your condemnation of personal attacks! Still, you’re not alone. The perception that criticism of a concept equates to criticism on a personal level is not unknown here.

I haven’t ‘told’ you to define your views, no one has attacked you, and no one has attempted to prevent you posting here.

[sandyRoe]

He is invincible, onmipotent, all knowing. Everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
We, looking through a glass darkly, can't see that, but it is so.

[jeffa]

"How could he not fail, he doesn't exist other than as a concept."
"Do a novena (9 days) just a little prayer asking for the gift of faith to believe."

Priceless!

[jeffa]

Nice one, Sandy. Nothing like a Voltaire quote to get things going of a morning...

[sandyRoe]

There is great power in the Novena. Few believers have not, at one time or another, experienced that dark night of the soul where faith wobbles like a jelly and despair is all around. It's then that the ritual and prayer of the Novena can help shore faith up and get us back on the path to salvation.

[grasscarp]

Not sure why my post is in your eyes extraordinary. I took your post and answered it line by line.
Extraordinary that I bothered? Yes. Extraordinary in its content? No factual.
Made me laugh though when you put "I haven’t ‘told’ you to define your views, no one has attacked you"
Reread your 3 posts on previous page. Each one is doing exactly that. If you are making a grammatical distinction between asked and told then there is hardly much difference in this case.

[naomi24]

Oh my!