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Just As Dogmatic
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are atheists/agnostics just as dogmatic about their unbelief as religionists are of theirs?
Wouldnt it be more honest to say (when it comes to the 'big issues' such as life after death, paranormal experiences, etc) that we just dont know?
Ive wavered between belief systems for years and have read the bible/koran/other religious writings and Dawkins/Hitchens et all.
Ive spent countless hours reading forums of all faiths and those of no faith. But what strikes me is how similar, atheists present their case similar to how religionists present theirs..."im right and youre wrong"....no middle ground.
Wouldnt it be more honest to say (when it comes to the 'big issues' such as life after death, paranormal experiences, etc) that we just dont know?
Ive wavered between belief systems for years and have read the bible/koran/other religious writings and Dawkins/Hitchens et all.
Ive spent countless hours reading forums of all faiths and those of no faith. But what strikes me is how similar, atheists present their case similar to how religionists present theirs..."im right and youre wrong"....no middle ground.
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I am still waiting for incontrovertible proof. You prove to me beyond doubt any part of your religion, and I'll believe it. Creation in 6 days, life after death, 72 virgins, the cycle of rebirth, flaming chariots taking prophets up to heaven, walking on water, bringing the dead back to life, virgin birth - just prove one of them. Until you do, I shall decline to believe anything you want me to believe, especially in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Go on, try.
And don't wave books of fairy stories under my nose. I have plenty of fairy tale books. And don't try using threats of eternal punishment, unless you can prove those, too.
Go on, try.
And don't wave books of fairy stories under my nose. I have plenty of fairy tale books. And don't try using threats of eternal punishment, unless you can prove those, too.
RATTER Your comments on Paganism prove you know little of it (and why should you) and I'm certainly not going to preach. Paganism, like Christianity covers many different beliefs (think Roman Catholic v Methodism). Some Pagans do not worship any 'Gods' but respect,rather than worship, Mother Earth and do certain things at certain times of the year, all to do with the Seasons, and have a party afterwards. I was responding to the OP which stated all Faiths present their cases in a similar way '"im right and you're wrong"....no middle ground. , which in the case of Paganism is not true. A Pagan would say 'well I'm almost sure I'm right, but hey, if you don't agree that's fine I respect the fact you have a different opinion'.
How can something be a 'big issue' if we 'don't know'? That actually makes it a non-issue.
I'm perfectly happy to say I don't know - and that's why life after death is of such insignificance that it's not even worth discussing in passing, let alone in great length, and in written form, or as instructions about how to make one's life after death a good one by doing things in this life in the way that somebody else prescribes, and not a bad one by not doing this and that or the other, and live in fear, hope, or gain any kind of comfort from it whatsoever.
I'm perfectly happy to say I don't know - and that's why life after death is of such insignificance that it's not even worth discussing in passing, let alone in great length, and in written form, or as instructions about how to make one's life after death a good one by doing things in this life in the way that somebody else prescribes, and not a bad one by not doing this and that or the other, and live in fear, hope, or gain any kind of comfort from it whatsoever.
Retrochic - //Andy -in that case you are a hypocrite or hedging your bets? When forced to go to Christian Church for weddings and funerals I don't pray or bow my head -I do sing though as I like a good sing song ;-) //
Neither in my view.
I am not pretending to believe in God in any way that is visible - I don't take communion, and I don't perform the sign of the cross when required during the mass. Like you, I do like a good sing and I join in with the hymns.
I understand completely that a faith requires effort and commitment, and as far as I am concerned, an absence of faith requires neither. I have no struggle reconciling the utterly horrible things that happen on this planet on a daily basis, because things happen.
There is no struggle to reconcile these issues with belief in a benign and loving God, and I don't envy those who do try and live with what their God does to his people.
Some Christians perceive atheism as being as much a commitment as being a Christian, although I fail to see why. Lack of belief means a lack of effort - life is so much easier and simpler.
Neither in my view.
I am not pretending to believe in God in any way that is visible - I don't take communion, and I don't perform the sign of the cross when required during the mass. Like you, I do like a good sing and I join in with the hymns.
I understand completely that a faith requires effort and commitment, and as far as I am concerned, an absence of faith requires neither. I have no struggle reconciling the utterly horrible things that happen on this planet on a daily basis, because things happen.
There is no struggle to reconcile these issues with belief in a benign and loving God, and I don't envy those who do try and live with what their God does to his people.
Some Christians perceive atheism as being as much a commitment as being a Christian, although I fail to see why. Lack of belief means a lack of effort - life is so much easier and simpler.
I am coming quite late to this thread but I am going to speak up for atheists here !
I don't really know if the tooth fairy exists or not but just because I can't prove it one way or the other, doesn't result in me saying " I don't now"
All religions are invented and are based on the irrational belief in illogical circumstances, and its not up to atheists to proved something doesn't exist.
Its nigh on impossible to prove a negative ! Its up to the inventor and the believer in any religion to prove that it does.
Until as such time as someone can prove to me that the risible claims by theists are really true, I shall continue to disbelieve.
Its the essence of what being an atheist is all about.
I don't really know if the tooth fairy exists or not but just because I can't prove it one way or the other, doesn't result in me saying " I don't now"
All religions are invented and are based on the irrational belief in illogical circumstances, and its not up to atheists to proved something doesn't exist.
Its nigh on impossible to prove a negative ! Its up to the inventor and the believer in any religion to prove that it does.
Until as such time as someone can prove to me that the risible claims by theists are really true, I shall continue to disbelieve.
Its the essence of what being an atheist is all about.
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