ChatterBank11 mins ago
Muslim Threat To Britishness.
104 Answers
What do you think it will take before our politicians eventually confront the evil of Islam in our society?
With Muslim patrols on the streets demanding sharia law, and the ever encroaching demands for more rights, isn't it time that the fight back was taken out of the hands of the far right racist groups, and dealt with by mainstream politicians?
The Quran needs to be seen for what it is, a manual for violence.
Islam needs to be viewed realistically, as a religion of hatred and division.
With Muslim patrols on the streets demanding sharia law, and the ever encroaching demands for more rights, isn't it time that the fight back was taken out of the hands of the far right racist groups, and dealt with by mainstream politicians?
The Quran needs to be seen for what it is, a manual for violence.
Islam needs to be viewed realistically, as a religion of hatred and division.
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Keyplus; //I do not agree that moderate people are not doing enough. And I have no idea what else anyone can do in this regard.//
I do not condone some of the personal attacks being made against you, and I understand that it isn't easy to criticize your own religion because the are rules condemning you if you do so. You probably will not accept the word 'trapped', but that is what you are. What has been created in the world of Islam, is a perfectly circular, perfectly sealed universe, packed with bizarre terms theories that explain why adherents are always good and their opponents are always evil (and some among them may well be).
If you were to criticize and speak out on the worst aspects written in the Koran, some of which are listed above, you would be an apostate[i and likely to be subject of a fatwa (everything has been thought out) like the very brave and very intelligent, Hamad Abdel-Samad who is the son of an Imam and now lives, and will always live, under the threat of death for his sensible and accurate assessments of Islam's most dire strictures, of which he advocates [i]reform] of the religion, not it's complete obliteration.
I'm not putting up the direct link, because I've already done it twice on R&S, but if you were to Google his name along with 'Islamic Fascism' and Youtube you could hear him out, though I think you may not.
I do not condone some of the personal attacks being made against you, and I understand that it isn't easy to criticize your own religion because the are rules condemning you if you do so. You probably will not accept the word 'trapped', but that is what you are. What has been created in the world of Islam, is a perfectly circular, perfectly sealed universe, packed with bizarre terms theories that explain why adherents are always good and their opponents are always evil (and some among them may well be).
If you were to criticize and speak out on the worst aspects written in the Koran, some of which are listed above, you would be an apostate[i and likely to be subject of a fatwa (everything has been thought out) like the very brave and very intelligent, Hamad Abdel-Samad who is the son of an Imam and now lives, and will always live, under the threat of death for his sensible and accurate assessments of Islam's most dire strictures, of which he advocates [i]reform] of the religion, not it's complete obliteration.
I'm not putting up the direct link, because I've already done it twice on R&S, but if you were to Google his name along with 'Islamic Fascism' and Youtube you could hear him out, though I think you may not.
The Lewis books I've read , Naomi, are:
Islam and the West
The Crisis in Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror
Islam: the Religion and the People
The Khandro video is well worth watching. Abdel-Sabad was at one time an independent member of the Islam German Conference (IDK). If you google it in its early days there's not a beard or a burqa in sight. Its agenda at that time included gender equality and de-radicalisation. Over time the agenda changed and eventually the independent members were dropped. IDK now consists of relevant government departments and organisations "representing" the Muslim community. Abdel-Sabad wryly points out that these "representatives" are almost all men in beards, and that the two main items on the current IDK agenda are Islamophobia and funding.
Islam and the West
The Crisis in Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror
Islam: the Religion and the People
The Khandro video is well worth watching. Abdel-Sabad was at one time an independent member of the Islam German Conference (IDK). If you google it in its early days there's not a beard or a burqa in sight. Its agenda at that time included gender equality and de-radicalisation. Over time the agenda changed and eventually the independent members were dropped. IDK now consists of relevant government departments and organisations "representing" the Muslim community. Abdel-Sabad wryly points out that these "representatives" are almost all men in beards, and that the two main items on the current IDK agenda are Islamophobia and funding.
Naomi – The one who does not surrender is trying to kill you. And I am sure you will try killing him. And then again I did mention that it was in a Battle situation, and obviously word surrender is usually used in that context.
Vetustee – Banu Quraiza’s story is about treason. And instead of me explaining here I will post this link where someone has explained it thoroughly. Main thing to note is that the decision to kill them was not made by the Prophet (pbuh) but instead by the judge they (Banu Quraiza) chose.
https:/
And other comments from a few well known, will not agree, people have been ignored.
Vetustee – Banu Quraiza’s story is about treason. And instead of me explaining here I will post this link where someone has explained it thoroughly. Main thing to note is that the decision to kill them was not made by the Prophet (pbuh) but instead by the judge they (Banu Quraiza) chose.
https:/
And other comments from a few well known, will not agree, people have been ignored.
Khandro – I don’t mind what people believe of say about me. Because they just don’t know me. But to answer your point that I am stuck and can’t say anything against my religion, I will only say one thing. Religion and a bunch of thugs who are doing bad things in the name of religion are two different things. I know the difference between what my religion teaches and what few people are doing in the name of religion. Having said that I will say one more thing here that I know many will not like. But right now there are two Islams in this world. One is Islam itself and the one Islam has been created by Western intelligence agencies to use it for their own objectives. You will not agree with it at this point of time but just keep it in your mind and time will come when you will know what I meant.
And I will leave this post with these words YET ONCE AGAIN that I condemn anyone, an individual or a state killing anyone of any race, any religion from anywhere in this world who is innocent. And I believe that children are always innocent and then anyone who is not trying to kill you is innocent.
And yet once again, let’s see if others can say the same words, but with past experiences, I doubt it.
And I will leave this post with these words YET ONCE AGAIN that I condemn anyone, an individual or a state killing anyone of any race, any religion from anywhere in this world who is innocent. And I believe that children are always innocent and then anyone who is not trying to kill you is innocent.
And yet once again, let’s see if others can say the same words, but with past experiences, I doubt it.
Keyplus, //…. then again I did mention that it was in a Battle situation, and obviously word surrender is usually used in that context.//
Usually? What about the rest? There is no doubt that Islamic literature encourages believers to kill non-believers. I’m sure you know that. Incidentally, you seem to have forgotten that you’re the fellow who said that one day the Taliban would be regarded as heroes so really it's rather difficult to take what you're saying now seriously.
V_E, thank you for the recommendations.
Usually? What about the rest? There is no doubt that Islamic literature encourages believers to kill non-believers. I’m sure you know that. Incidentally, you seem to have forgotten that you’re the fellow who said that one day the Taliban would be regarded as heroes so really it's rather difficult to take what you're saying now seriously.
V_E, thank you for the recommendations.
And to answer Theland's last question. No no one should stand there and shout at soldiers returning home. Because they were just doing their job. However if somoen has problem with the policies of the country then there is nothing wrong in speaking against it on a different platform. And I am a huge number of British people believe that Britain shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq and even in Afghanistan.
The Koran doesn't prescribe any punishment for apostasy, but all schools of Islamic jurisprudence do, based on the practice of the early Caliphs and the sayings of the Prophet.
E.g. Sahih Al-Bukhari:
"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas[legal execution by victim's next of kin] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
E.g. Sahih Al-Bukhari:
"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas[legal execution by victim's next of kin] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
-- answer removed --
Keyplus; "Many Muslims living in Islamic countries have no problem with the rule of putting apostates to death. The examples of Robert Hussein of Kuwait, Abdul Rahman of Afghanistan, and Bahaa el-Din Ahmed Hussein el-Akkad of Egypt come to mind."
Not only is apostasy punishable by death by Islamic societies, so is the (to me) lesser 'crime' of blasphemy. My wife is reading at the moment a book entitled Ploetzlich Pakistan, by Hasnain Kazim - a man of Pakistani origin and one who knows the country very well. In it he tells of a Pakistani young woman born into a Christian family. She was continually bullied, insulted and abused by other women of her village, one day having been told she was scum and should convert to Islam, she lost her usual composure and said "well at least our spiritual leader, Jesus, wasn't a criminal" for which she was reported by the women for blasphemy, and has since been in prison for 13 years with the death threat hanging over her.
Not only is apostasy punishable by death by Islamic societies, so is the (to me) lesser 'crime' of blasphemy. My wife is reading at the moment a book entitled Ploetzlich Pakistan, by Hasnain Kazim - a man of Pakistani origin and one who knows the country very well. In it he tells of a Pakistani young woman born into a Christian family. She was continually bullied, insulted and abused by other women of her village, one day having been told she was scum and should convert to Islam, she lost her usual composure and said "well at least our spiritual leader, Jesus, wasn't a criminal" for which she was reported by the women for blasphemy, and has since been in prison for 13 years with the death threat hanging over her.
" However I must tell you that apostasy is not punishable in Islam according to the religion.".
The final phrase "according to the religion" is ambiguous. If "according to the religion" means ONLY what the Koran says (ignoring the hadiths and the Sharia) then the statement, while misleading, is literally true.
Here's an excerpt from a description of kitman taken from Al-Misri's "Reliance of the Traveller":
“Giving a misleading impression means to utter an expression that ostensibly means to utter an expression that ostensibly implies one meaning while intending a different meaning the expression may also have, one that contradicts the ostensive purport. It is a kind of deception...
It often takes the form of the speaker intending a specific referent while the hearer understands a more general one, as when a person asks a householder, “Is So and so here?” to which the householder, intending the space between himself and the questioner rather than the space inside the house, replies, “He is not here....
Scholars say that there is no harm in giving a misleading impression if required by an interest countenanced by Sacred Law that is more important than not misleading the person being addressed, or if there is a pressing need which could not otherwise be fulfilled except through lying.”
The final phrase "according to the religion" is ambiguous. If "according to the religion" means ONLY what the Koran says (ignoring the hadiths and the Sharia) then the statement, while misleading, is literally true.
Here's an excerpt from a description of kitman taken from Al-Misri's "Reliance of the Traveller":
“Giving a misleading impression means to utter an expression that ostensibly means to utter an expression that ostensibly implies one meaning while intending a different meaning the expression may also have, one that contradicts the ostensive purport. It is a kind of deception...
It often takes the form of the speaker intending a specific referent while the hearer understands a more general one, as when a person asks a householder, “Is So and so here?” to which the householder, intending the space between himself and the questioner rather than the space inside the house, replies, “He is not here....
Scholars say that there is no harm in giving a misleading impression if required by an interest countenanced by Sacred Law that is more important than not misleading the person being addressed, or if there is a pressing need which could not otherwise be fulfilled except through lying.”
-- answer removed --
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