Atheist Faith?

[Theland]

What constitutes atheist faith?
A belief that the universe came from nothing without a cause?
A belief that inert chemicals suddenly sprang into life?
Any others ?

[vulcan42]

\\ Also Female Genital Mutiliation is done mainly for cultural, traditional or tribal rather than religious reasons. //
You don't condemn this mutilation, are you more concerned that religion is being blamed ?

[grasscarp]

Vulcan, of course I condemn FGM and I have been involved in work to stop it. My comment was that this is not generally being done in the name of religion.

[naomi24]

Yes it is.

[grasscarp]

"FGC is a social norm…

Not a religious requirement. It pre-dates all main organised religions including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and is instead a tradition, sanctioned by social norms. What this means is that it is held in place by an entire community, making it in some ways harder to destabilize and bring to an end, and in other ways easier to change by working with the whole community. Because it is part of most practising communities’ traditions, and has existed for generations, FGC is supported by men and women alike, often unquestioningly. Even when mothers are aware of the pain and other attendant issues that FGC can cause, and even if both parents are aware of the health risks involved, they will often still allow their daughter to undergo FGC due to the social sanctions in place."

This is from the website of Orchid Project which is working to stop this practice.

[icynorth]

Some strange answers here - not sure why - it seemed a pretty simple question.

Atheism can mean one of two things. It's either the lack of belief that there exists a god, or it's the belief that there exists none.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, not a religious ‘requirement’ but since Mohammed condoned it, a religious norm in some societies. There can be no doubt whatsoever that it is, by far, most prevalent in Islamic communities.

Would you please answer my question?

[grasscarp]

FGM is NOT a religious requirement and I have printed out a piece from the internet website dedicated to this practice which says this. You want to prove it is by coming back with "Mohammed condoned it". What is the point of discussion since you are so determined to be right about everything.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, I didn't say it is a 'requirement', but it might (or might not) interest you to know that 1997 a group of educated men, including doctors, presented religious argument to the Egyptian court in an effort to overturn its ban on FGM. Official statistics show that over 90% of Egyptian women are mutilated in this manner. Fortunately the court upheld its original decision, stating that the practice is not mentioned in the Koran. (Got to wonder what their decision would have been if it had been). However, Mohammed condoned it – and this was the source of the argument for its retention. Incidentally, all Muslim men are circumcised, and that directly contradicts the tenets of the Koran too. Mohammed rules - make no mistake.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/42986.stm


I would say that this thread is not about me, so I’d be obliged if you would leave the personal comments out.

Now would you please answer my question.

[jomifl]

Theland, to answer your strange questions (which seem to display a lack of understanding of the issues)
1. As others have said (many times), Atheism is a lack of belief in a god, not a belief in a lack of god.
2. Atheists do not necessarily believe that the universe came from nothing. Atheist may or may not believe all sorts of things but if they have a lack of belief in a god then it follows that they also have a lack of belief that the universe was created by a god.
3. Another misconception of yours, atheists may or may not believe(think) that life evolved from simple chemicals but whatever chemicals may have been involved they couldn't have been inert could they?

4. An atheist does not have to have a set of beliefs or non-beliefs to go with his or her atheism, atheism stands alone. Any other beliefs are possible, though, as the human brain is capable of holding conflicting views simultaneously (as demonsrated by religions)

5. Atheist only agree on many subjects because their brains follow a similar process of logic. There isn't an atheist bible.

[grasscarp]

You lumped FGM in all that is wrong with religion. I pointed out it was not a religious requirement, (backed up by statement from organisation tackling the problem.) Can we not leave it at that. Why the need to try and prove it is?

[MallyJ]

I don't think you are at all interested in other peoples thoughts and opinions because you know.. or think you know.. that you are right. To be so closed minded is really sad and actually rude.

[Khandro]

FGM may not be a religious requirement, but the barbaric act of slicing off the foreskin from the penis of a male child in Judaism is, and never gets mentioned, it seems to be on similar lines, what the heck is that all about, is it to make the act of sex less enjoyable?

[jomifl]

Khandro, agree with you on this, we had a thread on the subject of male circumcision some while back, strangely some people could see nothing wrong with it and one woman justified it on the grounds that a penis 'looks nicer' when circumcised..I don't think she was taking the pizz.
So, issues such as abuse of parenthood and human rights don't come into it..

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, // I pointed out it was not a religious requirement ….Can we not leave it at that. Why the need to try and prove it is?//

You said //this is not generally being done in the name of religion.//….

… but it is – and clarification was needed. Religion escapes culpability far too often. Incidentally, the Muslim Brotherhood, faithful Muslims all, intended to overturn the court’s ruling, but fortunately their tenancy was short lived.

I assume you’re not going to answer my question.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //Judaism is, and never gets mentioned//

Male circumcision in Jews is a symbol of their covenant with God. Islam emulates Judaism. Mohammed based the Koran on it.

[grasscarp]

Naomi - you still state that FGM is in the name of religion.

According to those at the heart of working against this barbaric practice, they state categorically that it is not and that it pre-dates all main organised religions including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and is instead a tradition, sanctioned by social norms.

[jomifl]

Grasscarp, I think that Naomi's point is that it is sanctioned by Islam and other religions because it is the easy option to do so.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, how it originated in not the question. The fact is that here, in the 21st Century, still it persists. Do you really think the people who are working to eradicate this foul practice aren’t aware of its source? Of course they are, but for obvious reasons, they must employ diplomacy – even though that, theoretically, absolves the real perpetrator - Islam.

I’m pretty sure Theland didn’t intend this thread to revolve around FGM, so perhaps it’s time we got back on track.

[grasscarp]

Naomi you are asking me
Do you really think the people who are working to eradicate this foul practice aren’t aware of its source?
They are aware of its source, which means where it started. The statement is unequivocal and says it predates all of the major religions.
And I did not introduce FGM into this thread - it was you. I happened to point out that this was not caused by religion.
I agree this subject has no place on this thread.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, I repeat – when and where it started is irrelevant. We can’t alter the past. The fact is it’s still happening in the 21st Century and it is perpetrated by adherents of Islam. Who are the women who seek help from organisations like the one you mentioned? It doesn’t take a lot of thought to realise that, regardless of country of origin, the common denominator is Islam.

And, you’re quite right, I did introduce the subject to this thread, along with several other subjects – none of which you chose to take issue with – apart from the child abuse one which you commented on briefly and only from a personal perspective.