Darwin’S Doubt

[naomi24]

Watching Steve Backshall's Extreme Mountain Challenge last night, he trapped a large wasp. He explained that this particular variety of wasp stings spiders, paralysing them, and then proceeds to lay its eggs inside the paralysed body. The hatchlings eat the spider from the inside – avoiding the vital organs in order to keep the spider alive - hence a source of fresh food is guaranteed. He said that Darwin’s discovery of this wasp and this process caused him to doubt the existence of a beneficent God.

Food for thought?

[naomi24]

Jim, ^Told you not to take him too seriously. :o)

[Hypognosis]

Unfair to mention it here but, on the other recent R&S thread, goodlife declined to be drawn on "literal or "in context"?"

Baiting overly-literal Creationists is almost too easy and borderline cruelty. Ought to be banned but I just can't help myself, sometimes.

(whistling, trying to look innocent)

[mibn2cweus]

Oh, I'm cweus . . . varwe varwe cweus.

[naomi24]

^ Haaaaaaaaa!

[Hypognosis]

Ach. Pie-spray.

Clean shirt, too.

Mmm; real custard. Mes compliments au chef d'cuisine!

[naomi24]

Hypognosis, Goodlife doesn't debate. He preaches.

ps. Your whistling isn't working. ;o)

[naomi24]

Hypognosis, ooooo ..... mercy boco. :o)

[naomi24]

Divebuddy, isn't nature just .... wonderful?

[Hypognosis]

I forget what moorhen eat. If it is pondweed but the young are too short-necked or too bouyant to reach down then they'll have to be fed by the adults.

If you compare species at one pond with another, you may notice that you only ever see moorhen in the shallow, swampy, ones.

[Khandro]

// He said that Darwin’s discovery of this wasp and this process caused him to doubt the existence of a beneficent God.//

Why should it? It isn't any different from cancer eating away inside a human. The wasp in turn, will no doubt be the prey of another creature. Sentimental rubbish!

[naomi24]

Khandro, perhaps this was the first time he'd seriously thought about it ...

[mikey4444]

Nature...red in tooth and claw.

[jim360]

There is a difference. Cancer affects humans, and so you could just about fob it off as human suffering brought on by humans because of Original sin, or whatever excuse you'd care to name for "God is a sadistic monster". I think you can even stretch that excuse to account for animal suffering in general, if you assume that the animal's original diet was planet-life. A creature whose very lifestyle depends on destroying another one from the inside out? Good luck waving that one away.

Animal suffering was ultimately one of the major reasons I became atheist, for what it's worth.

[mikey4444]

Me too Jim.

[Old_Geezer]

More likely food for wasp.

BTW you're 2cweus, mibn.

[naomi24]

Jim, //A creature whose very lifestyle depends on destroying another one from the inside out//

That's exactly it. What kind of mind would deliberately design that?

[Hypognosis]

//
Why should it? It isn't any different from cancer eating away inside a human.
//

I was about to counter this as I picture cancer as mostly being out of control growth, forming a lump, pushing outwards but, on reflection, some the cig-packet pics do portray types which eat away at parts of the body.

The distinction I'd make is that cancer is not an organism, as such and it would be an own-goal for you to suggest God 'designed' it. A genetic 'switch' has undergone a pinpoint mutation (chemical damage, UV, cosmic rays, ionising radiation) and turns the cell into a stem cell-like thing.

//The wasp in turn, will no doubt be the prey of another creature. //

True. Meanwhile, you'd think that Creationists should leap on these inter-dependencies (eg pollinators/flowering plants) and jabber on about irreducible complexity and how the heck multi-host parasites manage to evolve. (I don't think even mainstream science has worked this out yet and Creationist guff might help kickstart the funding applications. ;)


//Sentimental rubbish!//

Maybe so. What about ideas like being reunited with our dear departed?

[mibn2cweus]

I once stumbled upon a cow carcass pinned beneath a fallen tree that had evidently been struck by lightning . . . must've been an atheist.

[wildwood]

I remember David Attenborough stating something to the tune that "when one sees this planet with its beautiful creatures, it would be easy to become convinced that there has to be a god to warrant for the existence of all this. Then again... this notion flies right out of the window when one sees young innocent African children screaming in constant pain caused by a parasitic worm burrowing in their eye, and the parents have no access to medical help."