Fao Theland

[andy-hughes]

Theland, I did ask this question on the thread in News, but I think it deserves a separate discussion -

As a Christian I am assuming that you follow the belief that God has a 'plan' for each of us.

What do you believe is his 'plan' for the victims of the recently deceased paedophile who has been murdered in prison?

[Theland]

https://youtu.be/MPm6Y-pANYI

Prof John Lennox.
I hope those not interested simply ignore it rather than admonish me by posting comments like, "This is not a cinema," etc etc.

[Theland]

https://youtu.be/Jz1EXZ-4GAk

Hugh Ross, scientist, from atheist to Christian.

[Theland]

https://youtu.be/E4uRWk06Wo0

J. Warner Wallace, ex homicide detective, uses his skills to investigate God. Lots of other videos of his available.

[andy-hughes]

Mamya - // I agree with Mozz on this one, I am no apologist for anyone including Theland but what you are asking of a rather ill man is too burdensome and an imponderable question that no one can answer. //

Let's keep a sense of proportion here shall we?

I am asking a question, because that is the raison d'etre of this site.

The fact that you see the question as 'too burdensome and an imponderable' is a matter for your interpretation, it may not be Theland's and it is certainly not mine, but feel free not to offer a view if you don't wish.

As for Theland being 'an ill man' - again I am simply asking a question, and he is perfectly at liberty to ignore it if he wishes, or evade it, which is what I expected, and what he has done, either way that is his decision to make rather than yours.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // Theland's need to spread the word of his beliefs is no better than your need to get your opinion on the matter across. Tubthumping Jesus freaks or aggressive Atheists? You're as bad as each other mate. //

I have asked a question, that is what the site is about, it's about exchanging views and information, and if you think that me asking a question is 'aggressive' then I would suggest that you don't understand the meaning of the term.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // I don't think this is going to go quite the way you were hoping, andy. //

And how do you claim to have any idea of what I was 'hoping'?

I have asked a question, and I await to see what comes in, I have no specific 'hopes', contrary to your imagination.

// My advice. Shut it down. //

I am not permitted as a Moderator to shut down threads without good reason, and your advice doesn't qualify.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Andy, God does indeed have a plan for each of us.
His plan is for each and every one of us is to follow Jesus Christ and become and become more like Him.
But this is only achieved through obedience to Him, and of course obedience is a choice of free will.
Look no further than me to see a disobedient believer who succumbs to temptation after temptation.
Be like Him, not like me. //

Thank you for joining the debate - as I fully expected you have completely dodged my question, and the points I made.

I am not interested in being pointed towards videos thank you, I asked for your view as a Christian, about 'God's plan' for the abused children in this horrible situation, and your direction towards academic platitudes is not a proper response based on what you think and feel.

I look forward to something a little more personal if you feel able to offer it.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // This thread just seemed like an excuse for the OP to try and score some cheap points against you. //

That's your interpretation, and in my view it is incorrect.

I am asking a question, and I would like an answer, there is no 'scoring points', cheap or otherwise in that.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // If ever there was a thread you should have avoided, theland, it was this one.
All the (good) people above who put themselves on the line to save you from the mob must wonder why they bothered. I, for one, won't be intervening on your behalf again.
You're your own worst enemy. I think you must enjoy the slings and arrows as long as you're centre stage playing the martyr. //

I have no idea why you would imagine that Theland needs any people 'good' or otherwise, to defend him.

History shows that he is perfectly able to defined his position vigorously, and indeed to set up debates personally, which he does frequently.

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record, I have asked a question, that's all, so let's stick to it, shall we?

[ludwig]

Andy, you've said before that you regularly attend church, albeit not as a worshipper. Why don't you ask the people there the same thing?

[andy-hughes]

Ludwig - // Andy, you've said before that you regularly attend church, albeit not as a worshipper. Why don't you ask the people there the same thing? //

If occasions come up when faith is discussed, then I do.

But as far as this site is concerned, experience shows that Theland is very very keen that everyone understands his faith, and hopefully follows it with him - and he regularly instigates debates about it.

I thought it reasonable therefore to ask him about his view on 'God's plan' for innocent abused damaged children, and I am still waiting for his response.

[ludwig]

You will not get any sensible response, - and that's no criticism of Theland. It's simply because there cannot be one, as is the case with lots of questions regarding religion.

[naomi24]

AH, //… it's the absence of 'free will' for his victims, ….//

That’s irrational. There is no ‘absence of free will for his victims’. They were simply unfortunate enough to encounter the perpetrator who happened to be a strong/cunning/persuasive/disgustingly filthy creep from whom, for whatever reason, they were unable to escape.

Furthermore, Theland has given you his answer so there’s little point in continuing to hound him. If you want to know more about ‘God’s plan’ for individuals ask a Muslim for whom, unlike a Christian, the plan, as you envisage it, is regarded as a reality.

[andy-hughes]

Ludwig - // You will not get any sensible response, - and that's no criticism of Theland. It's simply because there cannot be one, as is the case with lots of questions regarding religion. //

To be honest, I wasn't holding out too much hope in terms of an actual answer, but I would have liked a personal insight from Theland, although experience shows that he doesn't actually do that, preferring platitudes and links in lieu of a personal view.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // AH, //… it's the absence of 'free will' for his victims, ….//

That’s irrational. There is no ‘absence of free will for his victims’. They were simply unfortunate enough to encounter the perpetrator who happened to be a strong/cunning/persuasive/disgustingly filthy creep from whom, for whatever reason, they were unable to escape. //

As I see it, the concept of 'free will' requires an adult perspective, the ability to understand what is an abstract concept and either accept or deny it.

Small children cannot have 'free will' because they are not old enough to understand what it is.

That is the essence of my point - I am not interested in the notion of 'free will' for an adult child abuser, I am interested in Theland's opinion on 'God's plan' for innocent abused children - and to date I am still waiting.


Furthermore, Theland has given you his answer so there’s little point in continuing to hound him. //

I hardly think I am 'hounding' him, let's keep this in proportion shall we!

I have received Theland's answer, which is actually not his answer at all, merely the usual direction to links, with no hint of what he thinks, which is what I have asked him.

I accept that he is not going to answer me, and that is his right, but it doesn't say much for the strength and truth of his beliefs, which he regularly espouses in here - that he is avoiding a straight-forward question that speaks to the core of his belief system.

[Theland]

Andy - Happy to answer your questions anytime to the best of my ability.
There are two kinds of evil, natural evil and moral evil.
The victims of the paedophile were victims of moral evil.
We are all in danger from moral evil.
Gods plan for those victims was thwarted by somebody who was morally evil.
That is the best answer I can give.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Andy - Happy to answer your questions anytime to the best of my ability.
There are two kinds of evil, natural evil and moral evil.
The victims of the paedophile were victims of moral evil.
We are all in danger from moral evil.
Gods plan for those victims was thwarted by somebody who was morally evil.
That is the best answer I can give. //

Thank you for your response.

I am disappointed to find that God, who has the power to create heaven and earth, and save the entire human race from damnation, could not find the wherewithal to prevent the damage and scarring of innocent children.

If I read your response correctly, simple 'moral evil' was enough to throw God off track, and allow this abuse free reign. That doesn't say much for God's power, but it does speak to the immense power of Satan who enjoys this kind of thing.

For me, this is not a moral issue - I have no belief in God or The Devil, evil happens because people do evil things, because they can.

I don't envy you the task of trying to reconcile your loving God who has not loved defenceless children enough to protect them from one mortal's moral evil - it must make your head hurt when you extrapolate that absence of love and care to every other horrible occurrence in this world.

[naomi24]

AH, //Small children cannot have 'free will' because they are not old enough to understand what it is. //

Nonsense. They may not understand the concept, but they have free will.

//I am interested in Theland's opinion on 'God's plan' for innocent abused children//

Which bit of //If you want to know more about ‘God’s plan’ for individuals ask a Muslim for whom, unlike a Christian, the plan, as you envisage it, is regarded as a reality.//

Quite simply, according to Christianity, there is no ‘set in stone’ plan – for anyone. Human beings have free will. The criminal is free to choose to commit crime – the victim free to escape if that is possible. Unfortunately, in the case of small children, strength in whatever form that takes, as I said, prevails.

[Theland]

There is Jesus Christ, who shared in this moral evil, and therefore shared in our collective suffering.
The cross is the answer to moral evil.
We are not promised heaven on earth.
This world is fallen, and it's history is a journey to total redemption.
Some of the answers you seek are in the videos.
Take some time to skip through them and watch any parts that grab your attention.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // AH, //Small children cannot have 'free will' because they are not old enough to understand what it is. //

Nonsense. They may not understand the concept, but they have free will. //

You say it is 'nonsense', which is rather rude, but you still are unable to gainsay my point. Children do not have 'free will' because they are under the direct control of adults, and sadly, that can lead to situations like this one.

//I am interested in Theland's opinion on 'God's plan' for innocent abused children//

Which bit of //If you want to know more about ‘God’s plan’ for individuals ask a Muslim for whom, unlike a Christian, the plan, as you envisage it, is regarded as a reality.//

I don't want to ask 'a Muslim', I want to ask Theland, and I have.

// Quite simply, according to Christianity, there is no ‘set in stone’ plan – for anyone. Human beings have free will. The criminal is free to choose to commit crime – the victim free to escape if that is possible. Unfortunately, in the case of small children, strength in whatever form that takes, as I said, prevails. //

That again fails to address my question to Theland, where is the protection of his 'loving God' who can move mountains, but it seems, be thwarted by the 'moral evil' of one mortal man, and fail to act to save members of his 'flock' from horrendous abuse.