Searching For Atheist Apologists.

[Theland]

I have searched in vain for atheist apologists who can present plausible theories of the origin of the universe.
So far, the ones I have found all presuppose a, "something," as a part of their definition of nothing.
Lawrence Krausse requires laws to make, "nothing," unstable.
Hawking required gravity.
An unnamed YouTube lecturer required that time was past eternal.
Can you direct me to any more?

[Theland]

I have come across a real intellectual giant who argues atheism with such eloquence and knowledge that he is ideal for testing the faith of any believer.
Sean Carrol.
I may get Naomi one of his tee shirts for Xmas :-)

[pixie374]

I suspect naomi can think for herself...

[Theland]

Norrarfshecan :-)

[pixie374]

:-). Nice change of subject, though!! If unsubtle :-) xx

[Theland]

So far I find some of my beliefs challenged but not shaken to the point of doubt.

[naomi24]

Theland, //My post above is the evidence.//

None of what you’re offering is evidence of anything - least of all precisely who or what is responsible, in your opinion the god of Abraham.

[Theland]

Well at least Sean Carroll makes a nice change from Nailits, "talking snakes."

[pixie374]

Good, theland... any chance of responding to my last posts? X

[Theland]

Does my question about the origin of information not warrant an answer?

[Theland]

Pixie - This is the difference in our worldview.
God created the DNA for the, "kinds," of creatures He desired, whereas your worldview says something entirely different.

[pixie374]

I did at 11:24, I think?
For example (and I'm no expert, someone may well come along and correct this).
But, for example, each of my children has unique DNA (information), created between myself and their dad. It has not gone consciously through a mind. This is surely new "information" that has been created, outside of a conscious mind?
If not, how was it created?

[pixie374]

Leaving out God.... as that doesn't prove itself....

[Theland]

Pixie - All new DNA is not created, but is copied from previous DNA via the protein.

All information, in my experience, originates in a mind.
DNA is information. So . . . . draw your,own conclusions

[pixie374]

I have... I have never seen information created in a mind, so far. Only a processing of it. Your theory there works in the same way...
Nobody ever has a "new idea" it is always a bit of a mishmash from what they already know.

[Theland]

Yes our DNA is a recombination from our parents, and theirs, and theirs, and theirs etc etc etc right back to Creation Day One.
But if you have an allergy to God, then of course that won't convince you of anything. But it is delightful to engage in friendly discussion.

[mibn2cweus]

Information (along with the necessary physical structure) is required in order for a mind to exist. The mind can not process, evaluate and integrate information it has not first acquired through sensory input.

[SparklyKid]

God does not exist, no apology needed.

[beso]

Theland // Yes our DNA is a recombination from our parents, and theirs, and theirs, and theirs etc etc etc right back to Creation Day One.//

They are imperfect copies of parental genes along with genes inserted from viruses and genes share among organisms.

Over billions of years, all the incredible variety of life diverged through natural selection of essentially random combinations of existing and mutated genes. All life from bacteria and protozoans, through to fungi, plants and animals shares a common ancestor that arose from self replicating chemical reactions.

All that information came to exist without any mind being involved.

[naomi24]

//But if you have an allergy to God//

So much for attempts at rational argument.

[Theland]

Mutations generally are deficient and a loss of information to the DNA causing I llness and disability.
We can see that today.
Viruses and bacteria add nothing to our DNA, and I. Fact are attacked by antibodies. They do nothing to improve DNA which continues faithfully to reproduce copie of itself.