Three Questions

[Khandro]

With Brexit out of the way (?!) can we now turn to more momentous issues? I refer to those posed by St Augustine in reference to Creation; Who made it? By what means? & Why?

[Mamyalynne]

If I may quickly add Theland, the mistake you make is by stating 'there is proof' - that is when folk will challenge you.

Easier to say 'I believe'.

[Theland]

Mamya - Well said. I did say there is evidence that I believe supports my beliefs.
But you are right.

[beso]

theland is completely dismissive of any science posted without offering a single piece of evidence or even a point to discuss. I don't bother much any more.

Otherwise he just runs away and starts another thread when the evidence piles against his prejudices up too high.

Either way he never engages in debate.

[tonyav]

Who made it?

An apprentice engineer.

By what means?

With what ever he could find in the scrap bin.

Why?

To help pass his Citizens and Guild certificate.

[Theland]

Beso - I will gladly discuss the science.

[Mozz71]

Theland, you know I respect your right to believe in anything, even though I don't share those beliefs. My problem is that you talk of proof to support your faith, but I've never seen you provide anything other than the opinions of a third party.

What is the evidence you claim to have?

[Theland]

There is lots of evidence, but let's start with one that has already been rubbished by Naomi and Nailit. Prophecy.
The Bible gives us the history of the Jews and accurately describes their scattering from the Land, their persecution wherever they went, but remaining a nation in spite of having no home.
Then, miraculously, being regathered from all corners of the world into their own Land, finally culminating in their Declaration of Independence in 1948.
That is the bare bones of the prophecy, there is lots more to it.
Now I guarantee Nailit and Naomi will not only disagree with this, and fail to say why, but will pepper their comments with ridicule, or at least, patronising.
Been here before, many times.

[Mozz71]

I appreciate that the Bible tells the history of the Jewish people, but even that depends on you taking a leap of faith to believe it as the truth, rather than a fable.


And how does it describe the reclaiming of Israel after WWII? Did it say they will claim it themselves? Surely it was given to them by the allied nations as "compensation" (I'm sure there's a better word than that, but you get my meaning) for the evil the Nazis did to them?

Sorry for being a sceptic, but I don't see this as evidence, just a belief. There's nothing wrong with that, but its a long way from being proof.

[beso]

theland, there was no miracle involved gathering the Jews from across the planet into Israel. People decided to fulfil the prophecy.

[naomi24]

Theland, //I guarantee Nailit and Naomi will not only disagree with this, and fail to say why, but will pepper their comments with ridicule, or at least, patronising.//

We have said why - many times - and Mozz and Beso have just said exactly what we've said.

I’m tired of your constant charges of abuse so I’m going to take a leaf out of your book. Stop attacking me. If you want a discussion, stick to discussing.

[Zacs-Master]

‘ With Brexit out of the way’

Ha!

[Old_Geezer]

Yeah, give it until the end of January.

[Khandro]

I find his, (St A's) last question the most fascinating - why is there anything? Hmmmm.

[naomi24]

Why do you think?

[Khandro]

naomi; ^ Does that require punctuation?

[naomi24]

It requires an answer.

[Old_Geezer]

Conversely why would there be nothing ? "Nothing" is no more likely to be the default than "something". (Although our minds are blinkered by the idea that everything has to come from something else, which leaves one contemplating unsatisfying conjectures; which in turn should suggest to us that we're looking at it the wrong way.) But if the default is "everything", then maybe it's clearer that it's not there to fulfil some aim, it's just inevitably there.

[Old_Geezer]

I think therefore I am. It's a good reason to continue to think.

[Zacs-Master]

He thinks, because he is.

[archibaldy]

I believe the Shona people of Zimbabwe on this one.

God (Mwari) created the first man, Mwedzi (the moon) in a great depth of water. Mwedzi became lonely and yearned to live on land. Despite Mwari’s warnings, he insisted on being released to the earth. Once there, he found that the earth was indeed a lonely and desolate place and begged Mwari for a partner. Mwari sent him morning star (Hweva / Massassi) and the couple gave birth to all the vegetation on earth. After a period of two years, the lovers were separated, leaving Mwedzi desolate once again. He petitioned for another wife and was given evening star (Morongo / Venekatsvimborume) and together they gave birth to the herbivores and birds of the earth and then to boys and girls. Morongo also gave birth to wild animals and reptiles but then created a great sin when she mated with a snake. This snake eventually bit Mwedzi and made him ill. His illness marked the dawn of all human suffering.

https://blog.rhinoafrica.com/2018/10/15/5-fascinating-facts-about-shona-people-of-zimbabwe/