Three Questions

[Khandro]

With Brexit out of the way (?!) can we now turn to more momentous issues? I refer to those posed by St Augustine in reference to Creation; Who made it? By what means? & Why?

[pixie374]

Rely on yourself, nailit ;-)

[Theland]

Nailit - I can only tell you what happened to me. At age about thirty, I believed in the prophecies outlined above. Looked into it further and became more convinced. Read loads and loads of books with testimonys from other Christians. All different, all enlightening. That was before the days of Internet. Now it is easier than ever to do the same without opening a book, apart from the Bible.
I suggest you start there. I'll post some interesting YouTube videos for you, or at least send the names that you can write down and view at your leisure.

[nailit]

//Rely on yourself, nailit//
Guess I will have too!
Now, where are these nymphs of Greek mythology when I need to call upon them?

[Theland]

Pixie at 19:14 - You do things that please you, and so does God.

[pixie374]

Have you ever tried genuinely watching "atheist" videos and researching from that point of view, theland? Or are you just looking for opinions that reinforce what you would already like to think?
To me, you really don't seem too sure, but you know what you would prefer to think? X

[pixie374]

What does that mean, theland? I'm not God...

[pixie374]

Thought you had found one, nailit ;-) xx

[nailit]

//I suggest you start there//
Theland, I was an evangelical Christian long before the internet, and when I was still a (really bookish kind off) teenager. I read everything that I could get my hands upon (I virtually lived in the library).

BUT...
It all comes down to this...
*IF* Your God wants me to believe in him, then I will.
Only he knows what it would take to believe in him and to date he hasn't revealed it.

So
1)he doesn't WANT me to believe.
2)my time is not yet
3)its all bull.

[Theland]

Pixie - Yes I listen to atheist lectures. Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins, Sean Carrol, to name just a few.
There are more but there names elude me for the moment.
One guy had an interesting theory that self replicating molecules could have evolved from crystals, but I found his theory unconvincing. But I continue to listen.

[Theland]

Nailit - Moses waited forty years in the desert before God revealed Himself. Abram, later Abraham was no chicken either.

[pixie374]

You are open-minded, by the sound of it then, theland... but not particularly convinced?
You don't "have" to know the answers... nobody else does... but it doesn't make sense to me, to go with an unproven theory... instead of just waiting to see.
You have already seen that prophecies and the bible itself, are very contradictory.
What is it exactly that makes you "want" to believe something that you can never be sure of? Xx

[Theland]

What makes me want to believe?
Simple. Forgiveness.
Jesus Christ took the punishment for my sins, so that I could be offered the free gift of forgiveness.
I can accept or reject it, but I accept.

[pixie374]

Do you feel the need to be forgiven for being human? I find it hard to believe you genuinely have many "sins"...
Is it about a possible afterlife?

[nailit]

//What makes me want to believe?
Simple. Forgiveness.//

Forgivness for what? Been born a human?
A human with human frailities and prone to make mistakes and get things wrong? This God that made you that way demands that you repent of how he made you?
Absurd!

[nailit]

But no more absurd I suppose, that in the bible, he hardened peoples hearts and then punished them for having hardened hearts.
So much for freewill (Though Calvin would have approved)

[pixie374]

I genuinely don't see what people get out of this. I am trying... but honestly, can only see false reassurance so far.
Jesus slept through a weekend... we have all done that :-). We are being punished for the way we were made?

[Theland]

Thanks for keeping it friendly.
Look at information. It always originates in a mind.
Now look at the protein in a cell. Information, DNA, is required to make a protein. But a protein is required to make DNA.
There are lots of links I could provide, but if I do, Naomi inevitably admonishes me for turning the thread I to a cinema, and telling me people don't have time to watch them.
Fair point of course. But then the information is then lacking.

[Theland]

It's a simple choice, in your life, in any situation, do you want to do Gods will, or yours?

[pixie374]

Information never originates in a mind. It is only processed by one.
You will need a little explanation for that view at least. If naomi is objecting to YouTube links (?) I entirely agree.
If you believe something, Theland, then you are perfectly capable of saying what and why x

[pixie374]

Mine, theland. I have so many more morals than any God. I wouldn't lower myself.