I've Been To Church Today.

[Theland]

Having been disappointed in the past from unbiblical teaching from the Church Of England and a Gospel Hall, my sins have been weighing heavy on me lately, and I felt the need for Christian community.
So, today I attended a local Evangelical church.
I enjoyed it and was made very welcome.
This could be my spiritual home for the future.
Do any of you have any thoughts on Evangelical churches?

[vulcan42]

Theland, you really do believe any old guff that suits your purposes.
You say your God is love but ignore he had his only son murdered. You say the Jews are Gods chosen people but accepts he punished them for centuries, apparently for their own good. Finally he returns these chosen ones to the land he promised them, only after he allowed six million of them to be murdered - and then, as far as the Israelis' are concerned, gave them the neighbours from hell. Yeah, there's a lot of love there isn't there?

[Theland]

God didn't have His own Son murdered, Gods Son surrendered His own life voluntarily to those who murdered Him, a pure sinless sacrifice to pay for our sin.

[THECORBYLOON]

Why are you evading my questions?

[Theland]

The nation of Israel were punished for centuries because of the curse they brought on themselves, in Gods eyes, a fitting punishment for his chosen people that were held to a higher standard of holiness because of their covenant status.

[Theland]

I'm not.

[THECORBYLOON]

Was the Holocaust brought upon by the actions of the Jews, yes or no?

[Theland]

The Holocaust was brought upon the nation of Israel by their forefathers centuries before for betraying their holy covenant with God.

[THECORBYLOON]

Hitler was doing the work of God by punishing the Jews?

[Theland]

The whole of mankind were using their free will, which fitted Gods plan to orchestrate the whole and complete history of creation.

[THECORBYLOON]

How was it Hitler's free will if it was God's plan to punish the Jews for the actions of their ancestors carried out centuries before?

[Theland]

It was. Just as you use your free will in whatever you do, fitting perfectly into Gods plan for you, and the whole human race.

[THECORBYLOON]

You appear to be claiming the negative outcomes,such as the Holocaust, were the result of human free-will but positive outcomes, such as the creation of the State of Israel, were the result of God's action.

You cannot have it both ways.

[vulcan42]

\\ God didn't have His own Son murdered, Gods Son surrendered His own life voluntarily to those who murdered Him, a pure sinless sacrifice to pay for our sin.//

Are you saying John 3:16 is wrong?

John 3:16 is a widely quoted Bible verse that summarizes the cornerstone Christian belief that their God sacrificed his son for the salvation of humanity.

[Theland]

No, John 3:16 is right. God GAVE His only begotten Son ... the rest was left to the whims of men.

[Theland]

I can have it both ways.
God knows the end from the beginning.
God knows the results of His punishments on His people, and on those who interact with them, including those who played a part in bringing about the return of the Jews to Israel.

[mibn2cweus]

Being willing to believe you can be absolved from all you've done wrong through the sacrifice of one who is innocent of wrong doing far from salvation only confirms and compounds your own depravity.

[vulcan42]

\\ The whole of mankind were using their free will, which fitted Gods plan to orchestrate the whole and complete history of creation.//

As I understand what you're saying Theland, is God has given us
free will so that we do what he wants us to do. So the holocaust was part of Gods plan and he GAVE his only son knowing he would be crucified. As I said, there's not a lot of love there.

[archibaldy]

TCL // You cannot have it both ways.//

When none of it has got any basis in reality you can have it whatever way you want.

Religious beliefs and rational thought are incompatible, there isn't much to agree on when the answers to fundamental questions about the source of the world around us and the drivers of our behaviour and thoughts processes are at odds. Yes we can both agree that £22.50 for a pint of beer is a bit much and number 29 should look after their dog a bit better but much deeper than that the cracks will begin to show.