Substitutes?

[Khandro]

Diversity, LGB rights, Black lives Matter, Global Warming, Insulate Britain, Veganism - the list continues.
Are many such issues really substitutes for the place once filled in people's lives (& hearts!) with religion?

"When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything."

G. K. Chesterton -

[Khandro]

jno: Thanks, I can normally fight my own battles, but against this guy one needs all the help one can get :0) Next up will be that I once made a quote from Breitbart!

[Zacs-Master]

I'm not about to mention Brietbart. Instead of hurling personal insults around, how about writing something coherent like an explanation as to why you used the word 'outlaw' in one instance and 'substitute' in another?
It was a failed experiment anyway.

I'll ask again, do you think that Russians are free to express opinions on LGB rights, Black lives Matter, Global Warming, Veganism etc?

I'd also like you to comment further on my postulation that it is the very freedom from religion and its doctrines which allows people to think about, and express opinions on, other aspects of human existence?

[naomi24]

Khandro, 14.15. You don’t know and yet you criticise.

By the way, there have always been working churches in Russia.

[Khandro]

I really don't know what you are on about are you insane?

//how about writing something coherent like an explanation as to why you used the word 'outlaw' in one instance and 'substitute' in another?//

Religion was OUTLAWED in post-revolution USSR & an attempt was made to SUBSTITUTE it with communism.


//do you think that Russians are free to express opinions on LGB rights, Black lives Matter, Global Warming, Veganism etc?//

Yes, & the most outspoken critic of at least the first two is Vladimir Putin himself, - so what?

[naomi24]

Khandro, religion wasn’t outlawed in Soviet Russia. It was actively discouraged - and denigrated - but it was never banned. There have always been working churches in Russia.

[Peter Pedant]

naomi is right
soviet russia was a haven of russian orthodoxy and state support

Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture being sent to these prison camps and or labour camps or also mental hospitals.[20][21] Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation, in order to force them give up their religious convictions (see Piteşti prison)

I mean there you are! you see !

[naomi24]

PP, stop misrepresenting me.

[Atheist]

Khandro; in an attempt to return to your original post, can you perhaps answer my question at 14:00? It's not meant to be a trick question, just trying to understand your point. :-)

[Atheist]

Khandro, I should have said 16:00, not 14:00.

[Khandro]

naomi: //PP, stop misrepresenting me.//

He isn't misrepresenting you at all, you are talking nonsense, religion WAS outlawed in the Soviet Union.

Atheist; When I wrote the OP I simply dashed a few subjects which came to mind, I should have added, 'sexism' & 'Racism', though I did say, 'the list continues'.

I'm not wanting to analyse each category, my point is not WHAT they are, but the manner in which they have become to be amplified with such fervour today, & I ask if this fervour isn't a substitute for the part in some peoples lives which was once the domain of religion.

I give you one example - as you mention it: vegetarianism & 'veganism' (though it wasn't so called) have existed for thousands of years, even in my lifetime such people carried out their diets without fuss or mention, but of late they have become 'causes' & extend to abuse & even attacks against those who do not follow their beliefs, where those who eat meat are being accused of everything from cruelty to animals & to destroying the planet.

I don't want to write an essay, but that's my point and question, which was after all in the AB topic of R&S & it was posed during Easter, one of the principal & significant feasts/holidays of Christianity.

[Mozz71]

//my point is not WHAT they are, but the manner in which they have become to be amplified with such fervour today, & I ask if this fervour isn't a substitute for the part in some peoples lives which was once the domain of religion//

No. As I said earlier, it's entirely down to the internet. people have a platform that never existed 30 years ago to soapbox their opinions. The opinions remain the same, but the shouting has gotten louder, and it's reach has multiplied exponentially.

[naomi24]

Khandro, if you must be quick to grab that which you think might support your argument at least read it properly first. Peter Pedant IS misrepresenting me - I’ve said nothing like he claims -and he hasn’t said religion was outlawed in the Soviet Union. It wasn’t. Read it again.

[1ozzy]

And pop goes the weasel

[Zacs-Master]

Crikey.

'Yes, & the most outspoken critic of at least the first two is Vladimir Putin himself, - so what?'

So what! Erm....it was you who brought Russia into your own thread in your post:
'We're not doing very well are we? & if the masses of Russia were 'subjugated' by religion, substituting it for Communism didn't work out very well either did it?'

I was more than puzzled at why you did this but, I went along with it.

Now I'm trying to relate your Russian point back to your OP, all you can answer with is that you think that Russian people are able to express their opinions freely. So how come Pussy Riot were imprisoned for performing their “punk prayer” in a Moscow cathedral criticizing President Vladimir Putin’s ties to the Russian Orthodox Church?

[Khandro]

//So how come Pussy Riot were imprisoned for performing their “punk prayer” in a Moscow cathedral criticizing President Vladimir Putin’s ties to the Russian Orthodox Church?//

You should bone up on the outrageous, mate of Putin, billionaire, Patriarch Kyrill for an answer.

[Zacs-Master]

Doesn't matter what I 'bone-up' on. They were jailed for expressing an opinion which is completely contrary to your assertion that they are, at 17:51 yesterday.

[Khandro]

naomi: You may wish to haggle of the word 'outlawed' but this doesn't sound as though practicing a religion was conducive to growing to a ripe old age, - & Peter P. WAS correct & you were wrong;

"The state advocated the destruction of religion, and to achieve this goal, it officially denounced religious beliefs as superstitious and backward. The Communist Party destroyed churches, synagogues, and mosques, ridiculed, harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with anti-religious teachings, and it introduced a belief system called "scientific atheism," with its own rituals, promises and proselytizers. According to some sources, the total number of Christian victims under the Soviet regime has been estimated to range around 12 to 20 million. At least 106,300 Russian clergymen were executed between 1937 and 1941."

Wikipedia

[naomi24]

Khandro, ‘outlawed’ was your word. If you don’t mean what you say, don’t say it. There have always been working churches in Russia.

Insofar as religion, although never outlawed, was persecuted, PP wasn’t wrong and I didn’t say he was - but he did misrepresent me. I said none of what he claimed I said.

[Zacs-Master]

Naomi, this thread is just Khandro's warped view of the world rearing its ugly head again. As you may recall, he's previously admitted that he blames secularism / atheism for the problems that Europe is now encountering.

Quite why he chose to dress this up as some weird 'substitution' thing, I have no idea. I doubt (given his failure to follow any kind of logic, or answer direct questions, on this and many other threads), he knows either. He really is losing the plot.

[Khandro]

Children, children, it's tea-time. now put away your toys.