christians and christmas!

[wizard69]

why do religious people celebrate a pagan festival like christmas and then complain that "christ has been taken out of christmas"? For goodness sakes, christ was never in christmas to begin with.It's pagan from beggining to end.Everything from xmas trees to xmas crackers.Just where in the bible does it say celebrate the birth of jesus anyway?

[Theland]

Angels singing, the Magi bearing gifts, the shepherds going to worship the Child? Was that not a celebration of Gods' gift to the world?
Out of 365 days, the one picked was, as you say a pagan festival. But who cares if the day is not accurate?

You are right of course, we are not commanded to celebrate His birth, but neither are we commanded not to.

[luna-tic]

Apart from the tradition being passed down from generation to generation and not wanting to sound like a party-poop; If those of us felt strongly enough about not wishing to worship a bloke who,if he existed at all was crucified by mistake and the placing of trees in our houses, all based on stories that were told hundreds or thousands of years ago,changed,rearranged and sprinkled with pixie dust then why bother at all?
Anyway, none of that really means anything to anyone these days.I would rather like to believe it's just about getting together with family and friends,exchanging gifts if you want to and enjoy each others company because in this hectic world we very rarely get the opportunity to spend valuable time with our kin for more than a few hours.

[Bellringer]

An arbitrary date, like the Queens official Birthday.
If you don't believe that is your loss.
Happy Christmas

[wizard69]

how is it my loss bellringer?

[noxlumos]

You'd like "Christmas" in our house wizard, since we have Catholics, Jews, Pagans, Agnotics and Atheists all partying together and enjoying their own individual beliefs throughout December, learning about each other's and then having a fight over whose right on New Years. It's great.

[daisy48]

" Christ's Mass= Christmas. Mass meaning birthday wizard69.

[wizard69]

daisy...my point is that christmas has absolutly nothing to do with christianity, its a pagan festival.please read the question before posting a reply. Nox, can I come your house this year, it sounds so much more fun than my place?

[Cetti]

Hello wizard!

If this is the Christmas windup, I really thought you would have done this a lot earlier? Anyway, you won't get an argument from me as I've never seen the point of debating as there is never a conclusion, is there?

What I will say is that I hate religion! Religion causes conflict and no end of trouble, which is why I follow a person - Jesus. His way works for me and a few million others around the world and Christians commemorate His birth 25th December, although it was more likely in September.

Your views are very rigid, you need to be more flexible in your thinking. Being a Christian means freedom from all things legalistic - so having presents, crackers, lots of lovely food and drink and plenty of fun doesn't in anyway undermine my faith, if anything it's enhanced because of it.
Happy Christmas - or whatever is right for you!

[Bellringer]

wizard69
It has to do with Christmas. It celebrates the birth of Christ at a date unknown so 25th December was chosen. I agree it was to coincide with the pagan saturnalia but politicians are doing the same thing now. The fact remains we celebrate His birth on this day.
Don't want to get too missionary about this but you may well be missing a lot if you just take it as a time to get blathered etc. etc.
And, yes I do, do my fair share of celebrating with the odd bottle of Malt.

[Clanad]

Think I'll take a good lesson from you Cetti. Well said... Merry Christmas to you and yours!

[Cetti]

Hello Clanad, lovely to see you again!

Happy Christmas to you and the 'Lone Star' state, where they cook the biggest turkeys and pull the biggest crackers :-))

[Theland]

Cetti - As a Christian, I too hate religion, and despair at the confusion that is so widespread amongst people who look to the big, so called "Christian" denominations, with their ceremonies, traditions, and deviations from the Bible, and think that what they see and dislike, is representative of Jesus' teachings.

[jno]

a Christian who hates religion, hmmm. Anyway, Christmas is the date on which some people celebrate Christ's birthday, others give gifts to those they love, and others just get drunk and watch the telly. You are not obliged to do any of these if you don't want to. We don't know when Christ was born, so December 25 was chosen by the early church (hijacking the ancient midwinter celebrations) as the official date. The Bible doesn't order you to celebrate it, but it doesn't order me to celebrate my children's birthday either, or my own, and yet I do it. So what's the problem exactly?

Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it... the rest of you will just have to make your entertainment, I suppose.

[mibn2cweus]

Wizard, the theme of your question appears to have ungone a major meltdown in the emotional upheaval that accompanies this Season. Oh well, its a "free" country; enjoy it while it lasts?

[Theland]

Jno - Religion is man made, mans' attempts to reconcile himself to God. Christianity is acknowledging God, through His grace and mercy, reconciling us to Himself. He does all of the work. We can't please Him through religion.

[dawkins]

So what you are saying, Theland, is that your particular religion is 'special' and all other religions are false. Or put another way, if you were born in a country not successfully colonised by the romans or (later) a European power you would not have been able to have a relationship with god.

[brionon]

Cetti, I'm with you, Oh How I'm with you.

[jake-the-peg]

I think people have missed Wizards point which was Christians moaning on the secularisation of Christmas

Most civilisations in the Northern Hemisphere had a mid-winter festival where they celebrated the "turn of the tide", days getting longer and spring on it's way.

In fact Stone Henge was more than likely that and that predates the pyramids let alone Christianity.

Doesn't matter whether it's Yule, Sol Invictus or Christmas or whatever the theme's usually the same celebrations and feasting.

So I have to agree with wizard it's a bit rich for Christians to go on about "the real meaning of Christmas" - the real meaning of Christmas is party time and it has been for thousands of years.

Celebrate it how you like but don't come moaning about how un-religous Christmas is!

[Theland]

Dawkins - What I'm saying is I believe in the doctrine of grace, not works and ceremonies as practiced by the major "Christian " religions.