Twenty Two Years And Counting.
ChatterBank9 mins ago
judaic/christian/islamic HELL
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How can any religious belief system that preaches hell as an everlasting punishment be considered a religion of peace, love and forgiveness?
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if I were to put my child in an oven for not believing what I say and then told him that I would not let him out (ever) would you consider me to be a just and loving parent who only wanted the best for him?
Would you consider me a model to follow and someone who is worthy of your grovelling adoration and praise?
Would you consider me a model to follow and someone who is worthy of your grovelling adoration and praise?
Hell on Earth, or is Earth Hell?.
Are we all here because we'er being punished for something in the past.
if memory serves, wasn't there a rebellion in Heaven, and Satan got thrown out, and given Earth as his domain?.
Could it just be, that we should all be Devil worshipers, and the God worshipers are preaching the wrong religion?.
The other thing is, Am I cracking up.
Are we all here because we'er being punished for something in the past.
if memory serves, wasn't there a rebellion in Heaven, and Satan got thrown out, and given Earth as his domain?.
Could it just be, that we should all be Devil worshipers, and the God worshipers are preaching the wrong religion?.
The other thing is, Am I cracking up.
Theland...my partner has the freedom to reject me but if I were to tie her to a stake and set fire to her for doing so that would make me an insane criminal.So what is the difference between that scenario and your god.Besides, what about the millions of people that havn't even heard about your jesus?According to the bible these people are also going to hell.
"Rejecting him or refusing to believe in him is a choice"
just like refusing to believe in Zeus or Osiris is.I CANNOT believe in your god so therefore I'm doomed to hell?
What a sick doctrine and forgive me for saying so but a doctrine that can only be followed by sick minded people
"Rejecting him or refusing to believe in him is a choice"
just like refusing to believe in Zeus or Osiris is.I CANNOT believe in your god so therefore I'm doomed to hell?
What a sick doctrine and forgive me for saying so but a doctrine that can only be followed by sick minded people
Wizard69 - I don't believe you really mean that. Your passion combined with your knowledge, often froths over the top of the glass, like a good ale, and I think that your apparent low opinion of Christians, is, at least this evening, just froth.
You are too polite and well mannered to hold such views. Aren't you?
You are too polite and well mannered to hold such views. Aren't you?
Wizard69 - There! I just knew you were baiting me again! But your point is valid. I don't claim to know all of the answers to the questions you ask me, except to say that I accept the bible as Gods word.
Bearing that in mind, what the implications for me, here, now, on earth in my lifetime? Simply this. I am deliberately failing God if I refuse to actively seek to search out other peoples needsn and to the best of my ability, meet those needs.
That's it. Now, is that a threat to society, to my fellow man?
My duty is to serve, wherever, and to whomever I can. I have a large family, and I confess that most of my 24 hours are taken up working for and with them to see to their needs, but,
(continued)
Bearing that in mind, what the implications for me, here, now, on earth in my lifetime? Simply this. I am deliberately failing God if I refuse to actively seek to search out other peoples needsn and to the best of my ability, meet those needs.
That's it. Now, is that a threat to society, to my fellow man?
My duty is to serve, wherever, and to whomever I can. I have a large family, and I confess that most of my 24 hours are taken up working for and with them to see to their needs, but,
(continued)
(continued) ...
... whenever I can, I try to spread the net wider in terms of giving, and I do try to single out the underdog and offer support in many, especially work situations.
I fail miserably, and often, but I try. I don't give up trying, because I fall down on theological scholarship, but lots of passages in the Bible inspire me to keep trying. And, guess what? Most of my troubled life is spent in peace, when events would dictate despair, and that peace is a wonderful thing.
... whenever I can, I try to spread the net wider in terms of giving, and I do try to single out the underdog and offer support in many, especially work situations.
I fail miserably, and often, but I try. I don't give up trying, because I fall down on theological scholarship, but lots of passages in the Bible inspire me to keep trying. And, guess what? Most of my troubled life is spent in peace, when events would dictate despair, and that peace is a wonderful thing.
My "belief system" (Christianity) also demands that I pray, and maintain a realtionship with God, which I try to do. I pray to God to ask Him for various things, such as the strength and grace to carry on in difficult circumstances, the grace to forgive. as I am forgiven, and for the peace of God to be made known to others.
Know then, that I often pray for you, that God will, in his own time, and in His own way, reveal His love for you, to you.
If you mock me for this, that's O.K. by me, I am honoured by such recogniton, but I will continue to pray for you.
Know then, that I often pray for you, that God will, in his own time, and in His own way, reveal His love for you, to you.
If you mock me for this, that's O.K. by me, I am honoured by such recogniton, but I will continue to pray for you.
At five years of age while being subjected to a private audience with the pastor in his study I came to the conclusion that if there is/were a god and a devil there was no reason to believe that the Bible was not authored by the the latter rather than former. As I grew older and gained more experience I affirmed that neither entity existed. Yet in analysis of the consequences of the actions of those who follow Biblical imperatives my observations in large part lend credence to my original view.
The knowledge required to solve the problems associated with living in this world and with each other must be found through observation, analysis and understanding of this world and the wisdom that we gain with experience. The advise provided in the Bible was at best originally unsound and, failing to demonstrate its basis in reality, proves more and more to be fatally flawed as science and technology advance and make misguided actions potentially much more dangerous. It is within reality we witness the right and wrong of the consequences of our motivations and actions and the time is long overdue to rely on the only guidance that has ever yielded consistently beneficial results, reason.
The mind does not respond favorably to dictates, right or wrong, nor are we born with the knowledge of right and wrong. Knowledge must be obtained through learning and the wisdom to apply it beneficially can only be gained with experience. Original sin begins with turning away from this process and offering blind obedience to others who are all to willing to do your thinking for you.
The knowledge required to solve the problems associated with living in this world and with each other must be found through observation, analysis and understanding of this world and the wisdom that we gain with experience. The advise provided in the Bible was at best originally unsound and, failing to demonstrate its basis in reality, proves more and more to be fatally flawed as science and technology advance and make misguided actions potentially much more dangerous. It is within reality we witness the right and wrong of the consequences of our motivations and actions and the time is long overdue to rely on the only guidance that has ever yielded consistently beneficial results, reason.
The mind does not respond favorably to dictates, right or wrong, nor are we born with the knowledge of right and wrong. Knowledge must be obtained through learning and the wisdom to apply it beneficially can only be gained with experience. Original sin begins with turning away from this process and offering blind obedience to others who are all to willing to do your thinking for you.
You know, Theland, I'm beginning to think that you must have a skin as thick as Tony Blair's. Time and time again you have to be told that you haven't answered the question but have merely given us a sermon. Yet time and time again you respond to further questions in exactly the same way.
Here's an idea... How about, in future, you assume that we all know that you believe in your God, that you worship him, that you believe the Jesus story and that you consider the bible to be a great read and a reliable guide (gulp!). Let's all treat that as a given, allowing you then to turn to the question that has been asked. You'll then find that if you study the question carefully, think about it and then respond with some answer containing the ingredients of fact, evidence, logic, reason and commonsense, it is a far more fulfilling and rewarding experience than wallowing in ancient superstition.
Here's an idea... How about, in future, you assume that we all know that you believe in your God, that you worship him, that you believe the Jesus story and that you consider the bible to be a great read and a reliable guide (gulp!). Let's all treat that as a given, allowing you then to turn to the question that has been asked. You'll then find that if you study the question carefully, think about it and then respond with some answer containing the ingredients of fact, evidence, logic, reason and commonsense, it is a far more fulfilling and rewarding experience than wallowing in ancient superstition.
Chakka...I think that in the future I will respond to Theland's posts in exactly the same way.He asks a question and instead of answering it I will just give a sermon about the benefits of humanism and completly bypass the question.Instead of using facts and logic I will quote randomly from the works of Marx and the communist manifesto.And when his questions get a tad too hard to give a response I will just start another thread and not even bother reading the original thread where I have been challenged to defend my beliefs.
Theland. Please AT LEAST TRY to answer the questions put to you.Otherwise people will start to loose respect for you on here.
Theland. Please AT LEAST TRY to answer the questions put to you.Otherwise people will start to loose respect for you on here.
This, "belief system," (Christianity), that, ".... preaches hell as an everlasting punishment," etc, IS a religion (?) of peace, lover and forgiveness, because ...
It teaches and promotes peace, it teaches and promotes love, and demands that we forgive, just as we are forgiven.
There, I have tried to answer your top question.
Hell is the word used to describe eternal separation from God, a situation that God does not want, but is brought about by us rejecting His offer of unconditional forgivenenss. So we can choose to live our lives totally disregarding God. God doesn't force the issue. But, once we have made the choice, God respects that choice, and we remain separated from Him.
I hope that has answered your question, I have tried to the best of my ability, not to preach a sermon, I promise you.
It teaches and promotes peace, it teaches and promotes love, and demands that we forgive, just as we are forgiven.
There, I have tried to answer your top question.
Hell is the word used to describe eternal separation from God, a situation that God does not want, but is brought about by us rejecting His offer of unconditional forgivenenss. So we can choose to live our lives totally disregarding God. God doesn't force the issue. But, once we have made the choice, God respects that choice, and we remain separated from Him.
I hope that has answered your question, I have tried to the best of my ability, not to preach a sermon, I promise you.
chacka35 - I assure you that I am not "wallowing in ancient superstition," but believing in something, somebody that / who is entirely relevant to me and to this world, today.
Our whole westernised societies are all based on Judeo / Christian values, whose input have been largely responsible for shaping our world for the last few hundred years.
It is with some sadness that I witness the ever accelerating downward spiral of our increasingly secular society, with its "anything goes " mentality, and a virtual abandonment of any moral absolutes.
So, with respect, I think your comments are off target.
Our whole westernised societies are all based on Judeo / Christian values, whose input have been largely responsible for shaping our world for the last few hundred years.
It is with some sadness that I witness the ever accelerating downward spiral of our increasingly secular society, with its "anything goes " mentality, and a virtual abandonment of any moral absolutes.
So, with respect, I think your comments are off target.
While we're talking about hell some of you may find this amusing: An actual essay answer given to the question "Is Hell Endothermic or Exothermic"
http://www.psc.edu/~deerfiel/Jokes/pchem.html
http://www.psc.edu/~deerfiel/Jokes/pchem.html
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