Jesus returns!

[naomi24]

Christians - if Jesus ever returns, as he promised, will you recognise him, or will you consider him to be a deluded lunatic (with all due respect to our very own Luna-tic)? What would he need to say to convince you that he was genuine?

[keyplus90]

Perigra - Naomi does not believe that woman can become pregnant without a man.

I do believe, And yes All the Muslims do believe in Jesus (pbuh) born without any involvement of human. Christians for that reason make him Son of God. And that is what Muslims do not believe in. Because It is God's will. He can create whoever and However he wants.

Did he not create Adam (pbuh) and he did not even have a mother either. So would you call him Jesus (pbuh) elder brother. Naomi does not believe in that anyway. She is giving you what I said on another thread, but just ask her what I said as answer. If she would not tell you then I would.

[naomi24]

Perigra, here's the thread to read for yourself.

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question528485. html

[Pesk]

Blimey - came upon this by accident. I am a christian and I believe that Jesus came to save everyone - all mankind! Jesus says so in the gospels. He originally came for the Jews as they were to be a lamp to show everyone else the way but they rejected Jesus as the messiah so everyone is invited to the party!
It also says quite clearly in the bible (by Jesus) to be ready as no-one earthly knows the time of Jesus' return. He says that there will be many tricksters and false prophets claiming to be him but when he returns it will be so obvious nobody will be mistaken.
I don't remember it saying anywhere in the bible we had to follow the next prophet. It says there is a prohet that proclaims Jesus but that was John the Baptist - seen as Elijah by many at the time.
The gospels say it all - especially John's gospel.

[keyplus90]

Pesk - Read this.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

The Qur�an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".


1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh)

[keyplus90]

cont:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

[Deuteronomy 18:18]


iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."


3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".


4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

[keyplus90]

cont:

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.


1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

[keyplus90]

cont:
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

[Pesk]

Wow keyplus - I'd love to meet you in person and discuss this over a cup of tea. However, my knowledge of the Qur'an is scant having only read it once and I obviously know the bible a bit better. Zipping to the last bit, I've always interpreted the "comforter" as the holy spirit given to the apostles at Pentecost. Jesus told the apostles he would not leave them as orphans and his spirit would be with them. He told them to wait in Jerusalem so this could happen.

The one thing that encourages me about debates like this is that all believers - Jews, Muslims, Christians should and can live together peacefully sharing their interpretations of "the truth" so when "the end" does come it will be one heck of a party!

ps. I've got to go to work in a short while so I might not be able to submit any more stuff until later.

[Quinlad]

Hi Naomi,

I agree that Jesus would be regarded as potty today. But that's presuming that he adopted the same methods as Jesus The First. And surely he wouldn't do that?

If the 'Sinner or Winner' guy who preaches with a megaphone at Oxford Circus tried it, sure, we'd laugh at him.

But if, for example, Derren Brown or Nelson Mandela suddenly proclaimed themselves the son of God, they'd probably have a sizeable following. Never underestimate how gullible people can be.

[naomi24]

Good grief, Keyplus. Was that really necessary? This question is not about Islam, nor is about the Koran, but you keep sneaking it in. We are talking about Jesus, not about Mohammed, or any other prophet.

Incidentally, the bible doesn't tell us whether Jesus was married and had children, or not. It's possible. We just don't know.

[keyplus90]

Naomi - You just can not keep quiet, can you? Pesk asked me a question and I gave him a bit of information to look into. Nothing to do with you. I do not think you rule here that what people should or should not say. If you do not like something, you know what to do. I do not have to tell you.

[perigra]

but keyplus is talking about jesus in context with islam, he has valid and interesting points

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I asked the question because I'm interested in people's opinions on the subject, so please don't tell me it's nothing to do with me, or to keep quiet. You've been told several times, not only by me, that it has nothing to do with Islam, and whilst, with all due respect to both pesk and perigra, your offerings may be enlightening to them, four long posts containing verses from religious books, is possibly just a little tedious for everyone else.

Hi Quinlad, I wonder if he would return as a 'celebrity'? That's a thought. Can't be Tom Cruise - he's a Scientologist. Unless of course .........

[keyplus90]

Islam phobia. Nothing else at all.

[naomi24]

Haaaa! You're surely not resorting to that old cherry? You are a wag, really you are.

[Pesk]

Naomi - back to the original question. As a christian I believe the second coming is not going to be like the first. The "first coming" saw Jesus doing his stuff as told in the gospels, dying and rising and being glorified - with God. Christians believe the second coming is the end of life, creation, the earth as we know it now; so I expect it to be very obvious when it's happening.

[Pesk]

Keyplus - the comforter prophesised to be with us when Jesus went back to his father, is a "paraclete" - someone who stands along side us to support us - hence the reference to not leaving us alone or as orphans. Muhammed (pbuh) is dead physically. The Holy Spirit as God's spirit is with me always to the end of time.

What happened at Pentecost to the apostles was not the result of Muhammed(pbuh) being there.

[keyplus90]

Pesk � I would say that this word can be translated differently. As you are referring about the comforter being with you till end then I do not agree with that point. Reason being that it could be the teachings which would stay with you till end and that would comfort people even if we believe in that as translation of �paraclete�. And then there are so many other prophecies apart from this even mentioning the name. All the references are there anyone can have a look. I hope it would give some information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraclete

[weggiewabbit]

If Jesus returns I'd tell him to b^gger off!