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Can I tell my child there's no God?
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I was brought up as a catholic but realised long ago that this religion lark is all b/s. The problem is I live in a very catholic and a bit protestant society. So, I've got a 4 year old son who I feel has no notion of religion but who must go to school this year, run by the catholic church. Also I'm going to get married in the next few years in a catholic ceremony. I love both people involved but am going to feel like a lier as I won't believe truly any vow(to the church) that I make. Obviously I will not say anything about my true beliefs to protect my family, but I don't think such a force should have such a hold over my life.
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Styley, that's a real dilemma. Once your little boy goes to school, religion is going to be very much on the agenda, so if you tell him God doesn't exist, it's going to be pretty confusing for him. He's only a baby, after all. Does he HAVE to go to a Catholic school? Can't you and your lady compromise and send him to an ordinary state school?
You're right. Religion shouldn't have such an influence in our lives, but it does, and it turns us all into hypocrites occasionally. I presume your partner is a devout Catholic? If she really wants a Catholic church ceremony, then I suppose you will have to go along with it, but just remember that the promises you give from your heart will be to her and her alone. Even though what you will be obliged to say in relation to God, will go against the grain, for the sake of harmony, you can probably cope with that. It's not ideal, I know, but what choice do you have? I would be more concerned about the Catholic school's influence upon your little boy, and the confusion that conflicting opinions are likely to cause him.
You're right. Religion shouldn't have such an influence in our lives, but it does, and it turns us all into hypocrites occasionally. I presume your partner is a devout Catholic? If she really wants a Catholic church ceremony, then I suppose you will have to go along with it, but just remember that the promises you give from your heart will be to her and her alone. Even though what you will be obliged to say in relation to God, will go against the grain, for the sake of harmony, you can probably cope with that. It's not ideal, I know, but what choice do you have? I would be more concerned about the Catholic school's influence upon your little boy, and the confusion that conflicting opinions are likely to cause him.
Here's a site run by an ex priest. It's worth a look if you are considering the effects of Roman Catholicism on your child.
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/
My 10 year old son goes to a Church of England school.I have never forced my beliefs on him(agnostic) but at age 10 he has made his own mind up and actually doesn't believe in God....this is despite the fact he has to attend church weekly and everything in the school day revolves around worship. He isn't the only child in the school that feels this way.I firmly believe that children should make up their own minds about religion and not have their parent's belief forced on them(which is why none of my 3 kids were baptised).
Yeah, I don't think I'll actually tell him about the existence one way or the other, it's more the questions that are to come. Just because of our community we believe one thing whereas a child, for example, India, will believe something different and I just see it as a total crock.
Naomi, I'm not too bothered about hypocrisy, per se, as you say it's about keeping the harmony between loved ones. We're here for whatever amount of years and why fall out over something I don't even think is real.
Naomi, I'm not too bothered about hypocrisy, per se, as you say it's about keeping the harmony between loved ones. We're here for whatever amount of years and why fall out over something I don't even think is real.
-- answer removed --
When people like Clanad and Waldo lock horns over the question of Gods' existence, using numerous referenced sources to back up their arguments, one has to ask, are either of them being dishonest and deliberately holding back information that would damage their own argument?
No, I don't believe so, I believe they are both very honest and of the highest integrity.
So, where does that leave lesser mortals like me, a Christian, or my atheist counterparts, who don't have, or claim to have, such expertise?
I conclude that we have to work out our own salvation, and to tell your child that there is no God, is as bad as stuffing religion down his / her throat.
Better to encourage an enquiring mind, and present a balanced argument, and your child will make an independent choice when maturity facilitates this.
No, I don't believe so, I believe they are both very honest and of the highest integrity.
So, where does that leave lesser mortals like me, a Christian, or my atheist counterparts, who don't have, or claim to have, such expertise?
I conclude that we have to work out our own salvation, and to tell your child that there is no God, is as bad as stuffing religion down his / her throat.
Better to encourage an enquiring mind, and present a balanced argument, and your child will make an independent choice when maturity facilitates this.
Good morning everyone.
Kroozer, old bean ;o)
That's all very well if a child is receiving no formal religious education, but in this case he will be - at school. I'm all for encouraging an enquiring mind, but how do you tell a four year old there is another side to the argument and that he shouldn't necessarily believe what his teachers tell him? That would be so confusing for a little child. Personally, I wouldn't want my four year old burdened or worried with thoughts of religion anyway, so this is a very difficult one. The only solution I can see is to send him to a different school if possible, and remove formal religious education from the equation altogether.
Kroozer, old bean ;o)
That's all very well if a child is receiving no formal religious education, but in this case he will be - at school. I'm all for encouraging an enquiring mind, but how do you tell a four year old there is another side to the argument and that he shouldn't necessarily believe what his teachers tell him? That would be so confusing for a little child. Personally, I wouldn't want my four year old burdened or worried with thoughts of religion anyway, so this is a very difficult one. The only solution I can see is to send him to a different school if possible, and remove formal religious education from the equation altogether.
Naomi, haven't we met somewhere before? You seem so familiar. The North Wales motorcycle rally perhaps? You had a Kawasaki 500?
Anyway, I don't mind at all if formal religious education is removed from the curriculum, and replaced by a study of what various people believe, but only with parental consent.
In other words, giving parents a choice.
Anyway, I don't mind at all if formal religious education is removed from the curriculum, and replaced by a study of what various people believe, but only with parental consent.
In other words, giving parents a choice.
Priest? As in R.C. priest? Well he would toe the part line, the Vatican line that is.
If your fiancee is religious, then I assure you there is a world of a difference between being religious and being Christian.
Roman Catholic teaching is at odds with simple Bible teaching.
It sounds like you and your fiancee need to have a good talk. It could be an issue that could sour your relationship, now, or in the future, so diplomacy may dictate saying nothing for the moment, but it's an issue that won't go away.
If your fiancee is religious, then I assure you there is a world of a difference between being religious and being Christian.
Roman Catholic teaching is at odds with simple Bible teaching.
It sounds like you and your fiancee need to have a good talk. It could be an issue that could sour your relationship, now, or in the future, so diplomacy may dictate saying nothing for the moment, but it's an issue that won't go away.
Oh no, Theland. Greasy motorcycles? Not my thing at all. The smell of oil and leather clashes terribly with Chanel. No, it must have been somewhere else. Now where could it be? The Ritz perhaps, over tea?
Styley, The only way you're ever going to know the answer to that one is to give it a try. If you do, please let us know how you got on.
Styley, The only way you're ever going to know the answer to that one is to give it a try. If you do, please let us know how you got on.
I don't believe in God, my kids don't go to catholic school, but they do get religious education of all sorts in school.
I have found it easier just to treat it like any other subject and also a bit like Santa - you wouldn't tell a child that Santa doesn't exist - they realise that for themselves as they get older.
They do ask questions and I just say - well, some people believe that and some people believe something else, but in the end nobody really knows and we just have to make our own mind up - at 7 and 6 they are quite happy with this.
They one thing I would say is that having a belief in God would make it easier to comfort them when someone dies. I found this very hard to explain, but perhaps being able to say that X is now in heaven would be easier.
I went for a cop out about guardian angels, without doing the whole heaven bit.
I have found it easier just to treat it like any other subject and also a bit like Santa - you wouldn't tell a child that Santa doesn't exist - they realise that for themselves as they get older.
They do ask questions and I just say - well, some people believe that and some people believe something else, but in the end nobody really knows and we just have to make our own mind up - at 7 and 6 they are quite happy with this.
They one thing I would say is that having a belief in God would make it easier to comfort them when someone dies. I found this very hard to explain, but perhaps being able to say that X is now in heaven would be easier.
I went for a cop out about guardian angels, without doing the whole heaven bit.
Let me get this straight (and mind you, I feel you are free to believe or not believe in any sort of higher power that you want) .....
You are getting married in a "Catholic ceremony". That means you are committing to receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. You also agree to raise your children to be Catholic.
but .... you "won't believe truly any vow (to the church) that (you) make"
In other words, you are a liar who has no compunction about defiling a Sacrament, and a ball-less wonder to boot.
How can you possibly think that starting your marriage off with a lie is a good idea?
If you don't believe in God, then don't get married in a church. If you don't intend to honor a vow that enables you to receive the Holy Sacrament of marriage in a Catholic church, then don't take the vow in a Catholic church to begin with.
Don't you even realize that you are teaching your son (by way of example) that it's ok to lie if it gets you what you want or if it's the easier thing to do?
You have every right to be married in a civil ceremony. You don't have any right to defile a Sacrament. A decent person would have some respect for a Sacrament, even if it isn't part of their belief system. Better to be an honest Athiest than a fake Catholic.
Grow some balls and stand up for what you believe in instead of taking the cowards way out.
If you aren't man enough to do that, then you aren't man enough to be married anywhere. There is no room for "pretending" when it comes to something as serious as marriage.
You are getting married in a "Catholic ceremony". That means you are committing to receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. You also agree to raise your children to be Catholic.
but .... you "won't believe truly any vow (to the church) that (you) make"
In other words, you are a liar who has no compunction about defiling a Sacrament, and a ball-less wonder to boot.
How can you possibly think that starting your marriage off with a lie is a good idea?
If you don't believe in God, then don't get married in a church. If you don't intend to honor a vow that enables you to receive the Holy Sacrament of marriage in a Catholic church, then don't take the vow in a Catholic church to begin with.
Don't you even realize that you are teaching your son (by way of example) that it's ok to lie if it gets you what you want or if it's the easier thing to do?
You have every right to be married in a civil ceremony. You don't have any right to defile a Sacrament. A decent person would have some respect for a Sacrament, even if it isn't part of their belief system. Better to be an honest Athiest than a fake Catholic.
Grow some balls and stand up for what you believe in instead of taking the cowards way out.
If you aren't man enough to do that, then you aren't man enough to be married anywhere. There is no room for "pretending" when it comes to something as serious as marriage.
NJGirl, Of course ethically you're right, but your answer does not address or solve the problem. It appears to be more complex than a simple 'if you don't believe in it, don't do it'. I'm assuming that Styley's partner very much wishes to be married in church, and would not be content with a civil ceremony. Perhaps she would feel that she wasn't really 'married' unless they are married 'in the eyes of God'. We have two people with vastly opposing beliefs, so what is the answer? Should Styley ignore his own convictions and do whatever makes his fiancee content - or at the risk of making her very unhappy, should he totally dismiss her religious beliefs, and insist on a Civil ceremony? That would appear to be the dilemma - and it's clearly one to which there is no simple answer.
I understand were NJ is coming from. I can imagine that if someone really loves their religion and all that goes with it, it does seem disrespectful on my part. However, the way it is, is yes, my family(all involved) will all expect a religious ceremony and I don't intend starting any rows as I don't particularly mind either way. That part of my mind is pretty much made up and that's that.
The thing about my son is more annoying. I think I will just cross the bridge when we come to it. I just think it will be confusing to explain that there are other religions out there.
My brains a bit fried thinking about this and with all due respect I may stop posting about it. Thanks for everyone's input, it was all valued.
The thing about my son is more annoying. I think I will just cross the bridge when we come to it. I just think it will be confusing to explain that there are other religions out there.
My brains a bit fried thinking about this and with all due respect I may stop posting about it. Thanks for everyone's input, it was all valued.
If you don't believe in God, i don't see what harm there is in talking the vows - you risk upsetting a god that you don't believe in anyway! As long as your partner knows that while you respect her religion and believe in marriage and what she means to you, you don't necessarily believe in god yourself, I don't see a problem. I wouldn't worry too much about how you explain it to your son, you will find that it comes easier than you think - and you can always say, Mummy knows more about god and things than I do, maybe we should ask her instead. Your son will be perfectly happy with that until he is older and will be perfectly entitled to know your views and to make his own mind up.
naomi,
I speak from personal experience rather than from the position of someone who sees an "overly simple" answer.
There is a workable solution, but the solution involves HONESTY and a commitment to building a life together - even though your belief systems are polar opposites. There are two parts in dealing with this; admitting that there is a deifference and respecting that difference. Pretending to be something you are not only leads to disaster.
I disagree that my answer "does not address or solve the problem". I am a rather devout Catholic who married an observant Jew. I'll leave it to your imagination as to how well that went over with both our families. I have been there and done that, and 23 years later ... I'm still a devout Catholic who is happily married to an observant Jew.
And you know what happened to our families? They got over it.
"Should Styley ignore his own convictions and do whatever makes his fiancee content - or at the risk of making her very unhappy, should he totally dismiss her religious beliefs, and insist on a Civil ceremony? "
Why is it all or nothing? I don't know if you are married or not ... but I would guess not as your "solutions" don't involve honest discussion and compromise that everyone agrees upon. It's not about winning. It's about finding a solution that everyone can live with.
There are non-denominational religious ceremonies that involve no deception on Styley's part.
I speak from personal experience rather than from the position of someone who sees an "overly simple" answer.
There is a workable solution, but the solution involves HONESTY and a commitment to building a life together - even though your belief systems are polar opposites. There are two parts in dealing with this; admitting that there is a deifference and respecting that difference. Pretending to be something you are not only leads to disaster.
I disagree that my answer "does not address or solve the problem". I am a rather devout Catholic who married an observant Jew. I'll leave it to your imagination as to how well that went over with both our families. I have been there and done that, and 23 years later ... I'm still a devout Catholic who is happily married to an observant Jew.
And you know what happened to our families? They got over it.
"Should Styley ignore his own convictions and do whatever makes his fiancee content - or at the risk of making her very unhappy, should he totally dismiss her religious beliefs, and insist on a Civil ceremony? "
Why is it all or nothing? I don't know if you are married or not ... but I would guess not as your "solutions" don't involve honest discussion and compromise that everyone agrees upon. It's not about winning. It's about finding a solution that everyone can live with.
There are non-denominational religious ceremonies that involve no deception on Styley's part.
Styley,
"it does seem disrespectful on my part" It doesn't "seem" that way hon ... it IS that way. The fact taht they wouldn't be aware of it doesn't make it any less disrespectful.
"my family(all involved) will all expect a religious ceremony" Expectations don't always equal reality. Did you forget that YOU are the ones getting married? They can plan their own wedding. The two of you are responsible for yours.
"and I don't intend starting any rows " And you value this over honesty? Come to an honest compromise and prsent a united front. They will come around.
annie,
"If you don't believe in God, i don't see what harm there is in talking the vows - you risk upsetting a god that you don't believe in anyway! " It's NOT about God ... it's about being honest with yourself and others and respecting differences.
"As long as your partner knows that while you respect her religion" Lying in order to have a Catholic ceremony isn't very respectful.
"it does seem disrespectful on my part" It doesn't "seem" that way hon ... it IS that way. The fact taht they wouldn't be aware of it doesn't make it any less disrespectful.
"my family(all involved) will all expect a religious ceremony" Expectations don't always equal reality. Did you forget that YOU are the ones getting married? They can plan their own wedding. The two of you are responsible for yours.
"and I don't intend starting any rows " And you value this over honesty? Come to an honest compromise and prsent a united front. They will come around.
annie,
"If you don't believe in God, i don't see what harm there is in talking the vows - you risk upsetting a god that you don't believe in anyway! " It's NOT about God ... it's about being honest with yourself and others and respecting differences.
"As long as your partner knows that while you respect her religion" Lying in order to have a Catholic ceremony isn't very respectful.
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