Roman Catholics and the virgin Mary

[4GS]

What's the deal with you guys worshiping her?
http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/free/Pics/1 0_Comm.gif

Look at numbers one and two, surely worshiping her is breaking those two rules from God?

[Octavius]

Yes many many instances in the Bible tell us that "You shall do homage to the Lord your God; Him alone shall you adore."

The veneration of the Virgin Mary by Catholics was set out in the Catechism of the Catholic Church by the Papl Curia. Catholics were asked to make room for Mary in their daily lives, acknowledging her providential role in the path of Salvation. The history of Christian piety teaches that Mary is the path that leads to Christ, and that filial devotion to her (as a mother figure) does not at all diminish intimacy with Jesus, but rather, increases it and leads it to very high levels of perfection.

[Quinlad]

Another contradiction is that Christian men are taught to abhor homosexuality. And yet they love and worship Jesus, who's a big beardy bloke.

;-)

[keyplus90]

Worshiping and asking for help is and should only be towards one God. And that�s all it is. You can respect his messengers and the other righteous people because they set examples. But you can not make them a way to God. God is all knowing and he does not need a medium to know about you. Yes he does need a medium to tell you about him, messengers. And they were chosen people.

[XL]

Rather than use messengers, if he's all knowing and all powerful - why can't he tell us himself?

[Octavius]

Yes Qunlad, he even hung around with 12 men and shared his body and blood with them (ooer).

A paradoxical dilemma indeed.

[Octavius]

No, so it must be true.

[Octavius]

Plausibility is a fairly subjective matter that does not follow strict logical rules legend.

It may be a logical fallacy to you, but it is certainly one that seems to work �argumentum ad populum�.

[keyplus90]

Xl - If God would tell you himself then there would be no difference in human and angels. All the religions believe that this life is a test. In test the examiner can test you through questions. Sending messengers is one of those questions to see if people can listen to those who tell you the truth or carry on using their own brain.

Secondly if God had spoken to all of us without any middle man then what would happen to FAITH. And I believe faith is to believe in unseen, otherwise when you see something then majority of the people will believe that any way. So where is the test.

[naomi24]

That makes no sense. What's wrong with the majority believing? I would have thought that's exactly what your God is aiming for.

[keyplus90]

Yes that is what God wants. But just imagine you are a teacher at a school. Obviously you want your pupils to pass the exams. But would you pass every one without testing them or would you rather have exam so you find out who are the ones doing their home work and who are not listening to you. However if you decide to pass all of them then why did they have to come to you class or in fact even to school. You should have dropped their degree at their home soon after they were born. In fact that is what you would have liked, haven't you.

[perigra]

i was brought up as a catholic and went to a catholic school.
mary was always revered as jesus' mother and the saints were revered but certainly not worshiped as you would god.

[4GS]

So why don't Protestants get 'visions' of the Virgin Mary'? such as the one at "Lourdes"?

[Octavius]

Perhaps they are not as astute as the Catholics, since many such Marian apparitions are reported in economically depressed areas, attracting many pilgrims who bring trade and money into the region.

Bernadette never claimed it was Mary, merely a Lady. Some of the locals called her a liar and a nutter. Others said they were hallucinations encouraged by superstition, and occasionally simply as lies and deliberate hoaxes to attract attention. A few locals however, put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7, but realised that this could be quite lucrative. And indeed it is.

[perigra]

we took our wheelchair bound, irish grandfather to lourdes hoping to cure him so he would walk again. we wheeled him into a pool of holy water untill he was submerged up to his neck. when we pulled him back out again we realised his wheel chair now had new tyres on it.

it was truly a miracle

[Octavius]

Really?

I went to Lourdes many years ago and got groped in a hotel bar by a very attractive brunette. I put it down to too much altar wine, but maybe that too was a miracle.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, No teacher worth his salt would leave education to chance by relaying indistinct messages. I would hope that any teacher would pass clear, concise and factual information to his or her students - and I would also hope he would be willing to answer any questions that might arise.

Sorry, I'm not getting this bit of your post. I don't know what you mean. Could you clarify please. In fact that is what you would have liked, haven't you.

[keyplus90]

Naomi - Teachers teachings are clear. Only students have to be attentive.

OK even if I take your example-

(Keyplus, No teacher worth his salt would leave education to chance by relaying indistinct messages. I would hope that any teacher would pass clear, concise and factual information to his or her students - and I would also hope he would be willing to answer any questions that might arise.)

Even if in this world your teachers gives all the students same clear, concise and factual information then why all the students do not have same marks or even few pass and few fail.

(Sorry, I'm not getting this bit of your post. I don't know what you mean. Could you clarify please. In fact that is what you would have liked, haven't you."

I meant that you would like all of them to pass the exams. But you just can not pass the ones do not listen to you.

[Octavius]

I would proffer that each is an individual that listens, understands and interprets the information in their own way. You may teach the same clear and concise lesson, half will tell you the same stuff back, a quarter just won�t get it at all, and the rest will analyse and provide a critique in their own words and observations.

The ones that you fail may well be the ones who have expressed a free opinion that is not in convergence with your own, even though they have listened. Is that fair?