eternal torture in hell...

[natas liah]

and a god of love?
is that what they call an oxymoron?

[brionon]

I think you've discovered the Weak point. the Xtians haven't twigged it yet.

[Octavius]

Not quite, although it would not be terribly good, would it.

If we stick to the interpretation to which you seem to require clarification, then the torture is the work of the devil which is inflicted once you turn your back on God.

[jake-the-peg]

Ah, but you only have to read the book of Job to see that the devil is an agent of God.

In that book Satan has to come and ask God for permission to inflict punishment on Job. God gives him this permission within certain boundaries.

So I don't think you can just set Satan up as the fall guy.

Not unless you want to turn Cathar or Zoroastrian and stop seeing God as all powerful

[Octavius]

Well I was more or less referring to the particular question at hand. If you are already in hell, then it is likely God aint around to poke you with a pitch fork. That'll be the other geezer.

[natas liah]

According to the bible, GOD created hell. And that with the sole intention of torturing individuals for all eternity.
The biblical God is NOT loving being by any stretch of the imagination.

[brionon]

God is the origin of everything innit ?

[jno]

people are missing the point of the New Testament, in which God reinvents himself from fire-breathing grump to loving father. Parenthood often makes people nicer.

[jake-the-peg]

I think people owe more of their idea of Satan to Heironomous Bosh and Dennis Wheatley than the Bible!

There Satan is the tempter, the name means adversary, offering Jesus earthly rewards to bow down or tempting Job.

[Octavius]

I have to admire that public declaration of faith brionon. Its not easy these days.

I did not dispute that God created hell for the devil and his angels, only that the torturing bit is done by the devil once you have got yourself in there. It�s a bit like prison ain�tn�t it, the state builds them and you can either end up on the inside or behave yourself and stay out.

You don�t necessarily blame the government for your incarceration because they built the darn things do you.

[brionon]

jno
Mon 21/04/08
21:37 people are missing the point of the New Testament, in which God reinvents himself from fire-breathing grump to loving father. Parenthood often makes people nicer.

Have you actually READ the bible ?
Matthew 25 41-'Depart from me ye cursed, into Everlasting fire,prepared by the Devil and his Angels.'

NEW testament -right ? Loving god ???

[Octavius]

To be fair, in your example, he was telling the nasty and mean people to sod off.

�For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me��.whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.�

They just got what they deserved - that is God�s judgement. Similarly we cast judgement on people who are selfish and unkind and will generally disassociate ourseleves from them (or at least give them dagger looks).

We, like God, look after the good and true as we expect they would look after us.

[brionon]

He-the loving god -wasn't just telling 'em to 'Sod off'. He was condemning them to Eternal Fire. To be Fair.

[Octavius]

Quite right too. Perhaps he also judged Hitler and Stalin the same fate.

God 1 - Meanies 0

[brionon]

You someone,anyone to burn for eternity ? I can tell you're an Xtian.

[Robb Phoenix]

Why ETERNAL though?

However crooked one is you can straighten him by love and compassion, and perhaps a few years in Hell would do him good.

[Octavius]

Well a brief spell in purgatory to cleanse the soul would probably do no harm. A sort of halfway house/ kast chance saloon for purification of those souls who are not altogether sinful but may have fallen by the way side and comitted venial sin.

But I would suggest that for people like Hitler as I have mentioned, an infinite spell of eternal suffering is quite apt. Are you hereby suggesting brionon / hail satan that God should love them anyway.......?

[brionon]

Whatever happened to ''We hate the Sin,not the Sinner''?

[Octavius]

I dunno, ask the fundamentalists who created the clich�. I guess it just made it easier for them to condemn homosexuality and abortion etc, without actually condemning the people involved. It would seem to them that homosexuality is �curable� if the individual repents to God��and never does it again of course.

Again I repeat, in my mind the sins of Hitler - and Hitler himself - are worthy of hate and eternal damnation.

[ludwig]

What about me Octavius? I'm an agnostic, and I'm sure I've committed a few sins but not on the same scale as Hitler. Generally I try to do the right thing.
Does your religion say that I will must suffer eternal damnation?

[Octavius]

That would not be for me to decide Ludwig, but I imagine most of your sins would be venial rather than mortal � as with many of us.

If, upon your date of expiry, you happen to �meet your maker� so to speak, then lets hope that any agnosticism is allayed and you make the choice that is right for your eternity. If that same day arrives and there is no maker to meet, then you will have nothing to be concerned about.